AFAIK, we always talked about 64MB in XDR and 32MB in GDDR3 ... That this totals up 96MB has started to lead a life on its own here and there.
PS3 and Automatic Scaling.
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AFAIK, we always talked about 64MB in XDR and 32MB in GDDR3 ... That this totals up 96MB has started to lead a life on its own here and there.
OK, that sounds more reasonable...
My bad then, I thought I remembered it was possibleDean said:
Kinda sucky, even on PSP you could scanout from main mem...At any rate, the only reasonable way to work around this (IMO) is to either mandate 1080i support in TRC, or let the OS manage the frontbuffer like I mentioned above.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised at all if the person behind this decision had no idea of the consequences, and noone bothered to correct them either.quest55720 said:
At any rate, if this issue is as big as some make it to be, it'll only be Sony's loss.
quest55720
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My bad then, I thought I remembered it was possible
At any rate, the only reasonable way to work around this (IMO) is to either mandate 1080i support in TRC, or let the OS manage the frontbuffer like I mentioned above.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised at all if the person behind this decision had no idea of the consequences, and noone bothered to correct them either.
At any rate, if this issue is as big as some make it to be, it'll only be Sony's loss.
Come on who ever made the decision had to know sony made a lot of 1080I TVs and upscaling DVD players. Even if he did not know which I don't believe for a second it does not let sony off the hook for not telling people about it. Why would it be sonys loss people won't find out till they get the machine home and already opened the box. It is not like the main stream media will take sony to task over this they will get off the hook as usual. It is something they need to let the general public know about. It is very decitefull IMO what they are doing by not telling the public. This whole cover up stinks.
If you're just wanting to get out there a 1080i signal, wouldn't it be fastest to use RSX anyhow? I'd have thought you'd take the FB in VRAM and upscale it through RSX and back out to VRAM for output.
I read the thread with interest (coz I intend to get a PS3). Even though I didn't foresee this problem, how is it a cover up if ERP mentioned this is how PS2 and Xbox 1 work ?
Those consoles where never announced as HD compatible machines.
Any decent amout of QA work would have surfaced this issue. What's 'genuine' about that?
Especially for a Japanese product. The 1080i displays have been out there for years...
Having said that, I don't think it really is an error from Sony, sure it's not consumer friendly but 1080i hasn't got a lot to do with real HD to be honest.
It now makes sense they aren't providing a VGA cable too by the way. You normally would like to lock your settings for that.
Having said that, I don't think it really is an error from Sony, sure it's not consumer friendly but 1080i hasn't got a lot to do with real HD to be honest.
It now makes sense they aren't providing a VGA cable too by the way. You normally would like to lock your settings for that.
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Mistake in asserting that 1080i is not *true* HD ? The mistake does not need to (always) happen in QA.
1080i is part of the "real" HD spec. As others noted, some early HD displays, before many standards were set in stone and enforced, we marketed as HD displays while supporting 480i/p and 1080i without supporting 720p. For TV this isn't the end of the world in many cases due to things like external scalers in cable boxes.
My main concern is this: lag. It is pretty important IMO that the console itself, not the TV or external scalers, push the image to the user. I hope Sony resolves this one way or another. Kind of suck if they require 1080i (i.e. 30fps), but then again it would get everyone no the 1080p bandwagon. Of course we are talking about a small part of the market and I am sure Sony would be more than happy to sell these users new HD TVs. The number affected users minus the number of affected users not interested in a new HD display is probably small.
Of course a nice scaling unit to upscale movies and to downscale HD images to 480p would have been ideal for a home media device.
Crap on customers? Lets cut the dramatics.
The PS3 still works on these displays; and many games will work on 1080i.
Yes, not getting HD resolutions on "720p only" games will be a downer. Likewise a 1080 native resolution set that has to scale the 720p on with the TVs scaler isn't ideal in many situations either due to latency.
This is all true, but the games will work and for many people this won't be an issue and Sony is certain to find some form of middle ground in the next year that will satisfy most.
And before we blow Sony away on this, I think it is fair to remember that the 360's scaler doesn't seem to be being used to downscale HD games down to 480p. 720p w/ 4xMSAA downscaled to 480p is much better than 480p with 4xMSAA. And for good or bad, the scaler has allowed developers to work around the tiling issue on first year titles.
Darned if you do, darned if you don't...
My bad.
That depends - if the game was developed only for 720p and 480 is just a throwback to the scaler(with no special 480 support), then I'm quite sure it will be worse then native SD.Acert said:
And besides, this has nothing to do with the scaler - 480 support is mandated, so it's purely developer's choice if they render it natively, or downsample something higher.
/skims through "sony are teh stoopeed" thread and waits for Insomniac to release patch to support 1080i.
Really, it's hardly rocket science. However it does worry me a bit. My fear of console games being released uncomplete just because devs can just put patches online has come true.
Really, it's hardly rocket science. However it does worry me a bit. My fear of console games being released uncomplete just because devs can just put patches online has come true.
From a code point of view, there is no difference between supporting 1080i and 1080p. But making a title support 1080i/p is not an insignificant amount of work. Especially when it may have been developed with only 480p/576p and/or 720p with MSAA in mind.
So, no.. it's not rocket science. But it's not necessarily easy to patch something in this way.
Dean
For the purposes of discussion at hand, a patch only needs to add option for a 1080 front buffer (assuming they have that bit of extra memory left to squeeze it in), which should be easy 'enough'.DeanA said:
But if this is really affecting a lot of people - I doubt patching individual titles will really help much with the outcry.
If it's a problem with performance, non square pixels can help just to fit the resolution. Not easy for sure, but definitely doable. Not that i'm in the position to tell you what to do
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