Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Ruskie]

So that guy from GAF with friend who works at AMD was legit after all. His posts about Durango/Orbis are deleted and everyones that quoted it as well. Luckily, it did remain in Google Cache. Here is what he said about CPU in Durango.

So looks like there are 2 Jaguar CPC's (Core plus cache) with 4P/2MB. Clocked at 1.6Ghz(~1.25V)

There was one guy with a source that also said 8 cores @ 1.6ghz. He also said MS asked developers to go for 1080p if they are aiming for 30fps game.

 

[arijoytunir]

So that guy from GAF with friend who works at AMD was legit after all. His posts about Durango/Orbis are deleted and everyones that quoted it as well. Luckily, it did remain in Google Cache. Here is what he said about CPU in Durango.



There was one guy with a source that also said 8 cores @ 1.6ghz. He also said MS asked developers to go for 1080p if they are aiming for 30fps game.

maybe marcan the wii hacker just follows neogaf and just as everyone believes that guy who did the jaguar rumor , he also believes him and so he did that tweet !

 

[N2O]

So that guy from GAF with friend who works at AMD was legit after all. His posts about Durango/Orbis are deleted and everyones that quoted it as well. Luckily, it did remain in Google Cache. Here is what he said about CPU in Durango.



There was one guy with a source that also said 8 cores @ 1.6ghz. He also said MS asked developers to go for 1080p if they are aiming for 30fps game.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648458&postcount=12112
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648458&postcount=12113

This 2?Actually not the post in neogaf got deleted,it's whole thread got deleted(as usual),so it confirmed nothing.

 

[Hornet]

16MB of l2 cache must have terrible latency :S
looks good only for predictable sequential operations

The Bluegene/Q has 82 cycles latency to the L2 cache. However, the cores have 4-way SMT and a small prefetch buffer with 24 cycles latency stands between the L1D cache of each core and the L2. The L1D is relatively small, just 16 KB, and a 6 cycle latency.

 

[Ruskie]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648458&postcount=12112
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648458&postcount=12113

This 2?Actually not the post in neogaf got deleted,it's whole thread got deleted(as usual),so it confirmed nothing.

No, the whole thread didn't get deleted only his posts. Its this thread, page 25/26.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469082

maybe marcan the wii hacker just follows neogaf and just as everyone believes that guy who did the jaguar rumor , he also believes him and so he did that tweet !

Very unlikely.

 

[Rangers]

1.6 is kinda low. I'd hope they can bump it to 2.4 by launch.

Apparently a Jaguar/Bobcat is something near a Athlon X2 core clock for clock? I suspect it will be pretty nice for devs used to the crappy current gen CPU's.

I'm a little worried it's a little "light" of a CPU for next gen, but as much as I distrust Nintendo engineers, I trust MS to know what they are doing. I am sure they are using those particular cores for good reasons. EG, they are well suited to gaming.

Also bkillian talked about the importance of low power draw, and that will be a nice help if your CPU only draws less than 35 watts, and is not a lot of silicon for 8 cores either. Lets you use a decent GPU and still come under power/cost constraints.

Sebbi:

Bobcat vs K10 (Athlon II X4 630 downclocked at 1.6Ghz):
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...Core-performance-analysis-Bobcat-vs-K10-vs-K8

In generic integer calculations Bobcat has 5% slower IPC than similarly clocked K10. The slightly improved Stars core (Llano) has a few percents higher IPC than K10. Bulldozer has slightly worse IPC than Stars and Piledriver has pretty much equal IPC to Stars.

AMD promised a +15% IPC increase from Bobcat->Jaguar. If these predictions hold any water, the IPC of Jaguar might even be higher than Bulldozer's, and be very compatible with Piledriver.

The worst case of K10 against Bobcat was SIMD floating point performance (K10 has on avarage 50.19% better performance per clock). Jaguar doubles the SIMD float (and integer) performance (64 bit -> 128 bit SIMD) and introduces all the new AVX instructions. I don't think we have to worry about SIMD performance anymore. It should now be comparable to BD/PD.

So that's Durango imo. 8GB DDR RAM, 8 Jaguar cores, and a 6870/6950 class GPU albeit in GCN form. May seem underwhelming, but I bet we'll be quite pleased with the results. In light of bloomberg recently confirming a fall 2013 release, it's right to expect the hardware to be pretty locked down.

 

[N2O]

No, the whole thread didn't get deleted only his posts. Its this thread, page 25/26.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469082



Very unlikely.

Oh now that's...nothing,you really think MS would told neogaf mod to delete a post half year ago?

If they really notice it,#1261 should be also deleted
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469082&page=26

 

[Ruskie]

Oh now that's...nothing,you really think MS would told neogaf mod to delete a post half year ago?

If they really notice it,#1261 should be also deleted
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469082&page=26

No, I think he asked mods to delete it. Or mods knew he was legit so they deleted it. He did mention codenames, GPUs 7xxx series, Jaguar cores and their clocks. He also mentioned his friend, where he lives and where he works. So...yeah, I think its a good idea that got deleted.

Iherre also mentioned 8 low clocked cores for what is worth it...

 

[N2O]

Why he asked mods to delete it after half year?

And Iherre?he said Durango>PS4,unless PS4 use worst than 1.6GHz@8 cores CPU

 

[Ruskie]

Why he asked mods to delete it after half year?

And Iherre?he said Durango>PS4,unless PS4 use worst than 1.6GHz@8 cores CPU

I don't know who asked, mods could deleted it themselves if they know specs are legit so his friend doesn't get into trouble. Or he asked them to deleted, I don't know. Point is, his posts are deleted and they go hand in hand with what several people said (another guy on GAF and Iherre).

You can't judge CPU by its clock (if its not Wii U ) since we don't know what it actually looks like. 8 cores at 3.2ghz is considerably more watts spent on CPU side, which would mean budget for GPU would be smaller. I trust they know what they are doing...

 

[N2O]

I don't know who asked, mods could deleted it themselves if they know specs are legit so his friend doesn't get into trouble. Or he asked them to deleted, I don't know. Point is, his posts are deleted and they go hand in hand with what several people said (another guy on GAF and Iherre).

You can't judge CPU by its clock (if its not Wii U ) since we don't know what it actually looks like. 8 cores at 3.2ghz is considerably more watts spent on CPU side, which would mean budget for GPU would be smaller. I trust they know what they are doing...

If mods delete it,they should delete every post about the that,not just one,and he should know if he didn't asked other member to delete it then his post will still there,like right now.

I did not judge CPU by it's clock,but they doesn't need to make it 1.6GHz@8 cores,3.2@4 cores would be more friendly

And 1080p/30fps was from other guy,and still there
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42702820#post42702820

 

[Ruskie]

If mods delete it,they should delete every post about the that,not just one,and he should know if he didn't asked other member to delete it then his post will still there,like right now.

I did not judge CPU by it's clock,but they doesn't need to make it 1.6GHz@8 cores,3.2@4 cores would be more friendly

And 1080p/30fps was from other guy,and still there
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42702820#post42702820

Well thats exactly what I've said.

We should put this to rest though. They deleted his posts, thats a fact. Who asked and why I don't know, but that doesn't matter. We have confirmation of 8 cores @ 1.6GHz from 4 different sources (one being developer). I'm pretty sure thats what we will find in Durango...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If mods delete it,they should delete every post about the that,not just one,

Yep. We learnt that in the third year of Mod College. Real rookie error not to follow through with a full cleanup. I don't know the quality of the NeoGAF mods (probably second year dropouts on the whole. Only 14% of students make it through the whole course to graduation) but if they're up to scratch, the disappearance of one post implies it was a user deletion and not a mod deletion. I may be able to pull a few string at the old Faculty and get the Chief Mod, Ultimate Nazi ControlFreak, to find out what happened.

 

[Rangers]

Yep. We learnt that in the third year of Mod College. Real rookie error not to follow through with a full cleanup. I don't know the quality of the NeoGAF mods (probably second year dropouts on the whole. Only 14% of students make it through the whole course to graduation) but if they're up to scratch, the disappearance of one post implies it was a user deletion and not a mod deletion. I may be able to pull a few string at the old Faculty and get the Chief Mod, Ultimate Nazi ControlFreak, to find out what happened.

I dont think users can delete their own posts at neogaf?

They probably just deleted exactly whatever posts sweetvar asked them too and didn't think about it beyond that.

 

[MarkoIt]

1.6 is kinda low. I'd hope they can bump it to 2.4 by launch.


So that's Durango imo. 8GB DDR RAM, 8 Jaguar cores, and a 6870/6950 class GPU albeit in GCN form. May seem underwhelming, but I bet we'll be quite pleased with the results. In light of bloomberg recently confirming a fall 2013 release, it's right to expect the hardware to be pretty locked down.

How? I don't remember to read that they have change pipeline lenght in the Jaguar-core, 50% more clock is a huge step-up from only the 40nm->28nm transition.
Actually is more likely that they added more cores: Jaguar cores are tiny, and more threads for background processing and for other tasks won't hurt. There were rumors of a 16 cores/threads CPU as well, although they may have been generated by the current alpha kit sporting 2 Xeon 8 cores CPU (and this may be also the source of the "monster" CPU rumor)

Temash is going to be a 4 core Jaguar CPU, packed with a integrated GPU as well and its TDP is rated at only 5.9 W. 8 cores won't consume much more than that, leaving a large room for a powerful GPU.
I can't see as underwhelming: if it's around 2 TF, with 8 cores and 8 GB of RAM, those are pretty good specs to me.

 

[N2O]

Well thats exactly what I've said.

We should put this to rest though. They deleted his posts, thats a fact. Who asked and why I don't know, but that doesn't matter. We have confirmation of 8 cores @ 1.6GHz from 4 different sources (one being developer). I'm pretty sure thats what we will find in Durango...

Even it's likely,please don't say "confirmed" until official announcement

 

[almighty]

What's the current transfer rate of modern Blu-Ray drive?

Didn't PS3 max out at 9mb/s

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Wii U achieves 22 MBps. That'll be a 5x BRD drive. 8x would be 36 MBps, but that may be getting pretty noisy.

 

[Acert93]

So that's Durango imo. 8GB DDR RAM, 8 Jaguar cores, and a 6870/6950 class GPU albeit in GCN form. May seem underwhelming, but I bet we'll be quite pleased with the results. In light of bloomberg recently confirming a fall 2013 release, it's right to expect the hardware to be pretty locked down.

If that class of GPU doesn't poop on the TMUs and cut too drastically the ROPs (16 for 1080p would seem reasonable) and some architectural adjustments (e.g. z rate) that is solid for the target medium. The memory would be acceptable *if* there was a high bandwidth pool in there (either GDDR or some sort of embedded memory, like a full read/write buffer), and the CPU while not ground breaking with 8xAVX and a better IPC than current consoles would offer some real world benefits. It won't revolutionize multicore or tackle the problems with going many core but on the other hand if the design is aimed at shifting some of these problems to the GPU it doesn't need to be.

If this comes with a Kinect 2.0 and some sort of break out controller I would be excited to toss down $399, let alone $299.

 

[Gipsel]

How? I don't remember to read that they have change pipeline lenght in the Jaguar-core, 50% more clock is a huge step-up from only the 40nm->28nm transition.

They indeed added two pipeline stages with the explicit goal of raising the clock ceiling. There is one additional stage at decoding and another one in the FP/SIMD pipes. AMD stated that the microarchitectural frequency advantage of Jaguar against Bobcat is >10%. But nevertheless you are right, 2.4 GHz would be pushing it hard. I would be surprised, if the clockspeed of the cores in Durango is above 2 GHz. 1.6 GHz is on the low side (early samples?), but 1.8 GHz could be quite doable.

Temash is going to be a 4 core Jaguar CPU, packed with a integrated GPU as well and its TDP is rated at only 5.9 W. 8 cores won't consume much more than that, leaving a large room for a powerful GPU.
I can't see as underwhelming: if it's around 2 TF, with 8 cores and 8 GB of RAM, those are pretty good specs to me.

I wouldn't argue with the low voltage version, but more with the regular 17W or 25W versions as they are more likely to feature clocks in the 1.6 to 2 GHz range. I've written it already some time ago, that an APU/SoC with 8 Jaguar cores would make a pretty powerful console chip at reasonable cost and power draw and on top of it it's easier to migrate to other (smaller) processes as it is synthesizable. Likely, it would be the better alternative to half the number of BD/PD derived cores in a < 35W power envelope. The last part met some resistance. :smile: