Agree cell there are many possibilities(4 PPCs much more eveolved + SPUs etc) cause Sony does maybe consider not the entire cell but part (SPUs,EIB etc at end its a "heart" of cell) of this technology for the PS4,we need to remember they bought back in December 2010 a Toshiba factory, perhaps a mere preservation to provide items to ensure the ps3, but maybe something more in this movement.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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Agree cell there are many possibilities(4 PPCs much more eveolved + SPUs etc) cause Sony does maybe consider not the entire cell but part (SPUs,EIB etc at end its a "heart" of cell) of this technology for the PS4,we need to remember they bought back in December 2010 a Toshiba factory, perhaps a mere preservation to provide items to ensure the ps3, but maybe something more in this movement.
You're right, i had impression maybe GPU is a key here...if Wii U has a gpu in the system only with 400SIMDs perhaps (depending underclock etc) shows only something like 50% more than ps360, but if it comes with 640 or even more maybe we can consider as next gen console.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
It should be called a next gen console regardless of the specs.
Calling it next gen isn't the point. It's whether or not the quality of the output differentiates itself enough from ps360 for Sony and MS to react or not.
Good point.
Suppose that the console Wii U will come with only 400SIMD/stream processors on your gpu ... the wii GC old based late 1999/2000 tech with only a very small graphics processing capacity of ps360 was able to review concepts about motion controllers for sony and ms,will be that with this new controller tablet like(today many people lover Ipads/Galaxies after all) and estimated performance 50% higher than the ps360,could not be enough to make sony and ms accelerate their schedules for next gen console?
That was reportedly to manufacture imaging sensors for cameras, and I can imagine it's turning out the pretty awesome Exmor R CMOS chips, which actually have a huge market unlike Cell!
The funny in this story it's that this factory was the one build with Toshiba for manufactured CELL.
If this plant is producing these items who will tell can not get back to make another cell with PPUs 4 + 6 / 8 SPUs?
With psvita has 512MB RAM +128MB VRAM we can especulate same proportion/relation 4:1 main RAM and VRAM for ps4(if they going to split memory)?
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But then where would Sony be making its imaging sensors?
Perhaps another plant that will buy or build, in the end I believe that sony will most likely prefer to invest more resources and logistics in the gaming market which has (despite some problems) been very interesting for the company since 1994 and has leveraged several key sectors such as full HD TVs, 3D, Blu-ray among others.
Forgive me for insisting on the theme cell processor, but I believe that despite the problems faced with PS3 today be reasonably accepted by the market (compared to the triumphant success of PSOne and PS2) is due more failures in the last minute to decide how GPU(on the shelf) to be used than deficiencies of cell architecture per se and ultimately ended up saving(deferred shading,MLAA SPUs like coprocessors ) the console ahead of a total failure faced the excellent hardware on x360(here are problens too,like cache miss,high latencies,only 10MB eDRAM etc but nothing compares to ps3,weak gpu,memory management : split memory+DMA,local store,programing heterogenous core cpus...).
you're kinda preaching to the converted, as I've always been impressed with Cell and think it a great design with loads of forwards potential. However, business is business. You don't always go with the most exciting option, or most affordable, or most expensive. There are loads of factors to weigh up. The huge downside to Cell is it's isolated development paradigm and ongoing complexities it presents to devs. Developer complexity is going to be an Achille's Heel going forwards, and hardware becomes powerful enough to allow for good abstraction without crippling the hardware. Sony have already identified the need to be developer friendly in their latest outting, Vita. They aren't going to backtrack for PS4 and create some monster machine that developers won't like to work with. So either they have to provide amazing tools that make using Cell as easy as using x86 or ARM or whatever options are out there, or the need to put in a set of components that developers will be working with. and if those other components also come with cost advantages, or performance advantages per dollar (due to Cell's lack of proress), or manufacturing advantages, etc., then all the more reason to switch.
Forgive me it is not preaching, but a search of opinions and visions and possibilities is just a debate
.Agree and it seems cell seems to have had its end in late 2009 Hiroshige Goto on pcwathcimpress sony was investing as for Sony PS4, but after all business is business and Sony probably would have exhausted its quote of patience (hear developers thirdies and may loss $$$) with Cell processor.
What about the hardware that i wanted .. dreammode on here 2 cents etc....its not cell but something like ARM A15 cores Cortex customised/turbo/warp whatheaver as PPU + 6/8SPUs for BC and (you can laugh me
) powervr6rogue 24/32 cores at 600MHz but we discussed this to death...
No reason to link one hardware design to any future ones. XB360 with eDRAM bares no relation to XB without. PS3 with split RAM bares no relation to PS2's unified and eDRAM. GC and Wii's memory has zero relation to DS's. The design of PS4 is likely independent of Vita's, unless PS4 is a multiplexed 8-way Vita! 
Or have Qbits for quantum computerNo reason to link one hardware design to any future ones. XB360 with eDRAM bares no relation to XB without. PS3 with split RAM bares no relation to PS2's unified and eDRAM. GC and Wii's memory has zero relation to DS's. The design of PS4 is likely independent of Vita's, unless PS4 is a multiplexed 8-way Vita!
Agreed...everything could change....
8 Vita i like this one
could be Arm + spu and powervr6 24/32 core 400 stream processors would put it way more than 50% faster than PS360 assuming the rest of the chip was equally equiped and running 500Mhz. It would be closer to 100% faster.
Performance 480GFlops?
You could be right maybe it's peak performance, therefore AMD had about 75% efficiency* / sustainable processing, and in this case would be 50% more performance ps360,but sorry my comment sounds like apples and oranges but took the impressions that have notified by developers rumours(yes theres not much valid but...) on Internet and i don't know if they compared peak performance of the current consoles (with 5/6 years code customised) with the sustained performance of wiiu gpu.
* in japanese... maybe today with code more customised they reach more than 75% unfornately i lost a pdf talking about this.
http://texhnologix.blogzine.jp/texhnologix/2006/12/xenos_madd_perf.html
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Blazkowicz
Legend
amazingly the Cell was developed a little eon ago, at a time even Intel was chasing a dead end with Prescott, even followed by.. a dual-core Prescott.
it was exactly the time of the dawn of single-thread performance and the shift to multi-threading on consumer processors, something new like the proto GPUs of the 90's. thus the future was still unclear.
ironically, the forward thinking Cell ends up losing against classic SMP multicore processors, they were way imperfect back then (Xenon, dual Prescott) but billions dollars and a few process shrinks later we got nehalem, sandy bridge, phenom II (w/ a 12-core version) and POWER7.
it's unfair as Cell got no further development (besides a slightly updated IBM board) nor major application, but it was too much niche or faced with competitors for most applications (SMP, DSP and FPGA, GPU, clusters..)
I don't understand why people still want to believe in it (except the suggestion of six SPE for backwards compatibility), as a "Cell 2" was canceled quite a while ago. IBM has capitulated. do you want to fight the war alone?
I have formerly floated the idea of a cahooting with AMD and SGX, to create a Frankenstein Cell that has an ARM PPE, SPE cores, and SGX cores, as a scalable, flexible architecture. The standard configuration might be 1:4:4 ARM:SPU:SGX. I suppose it's basically a Vita on a chip with 4 added SPEs (only we'd go next gen, A15 and Rogue)! This'd provide Cell compatibility on the tricky bits to emulate, while the SPEs could recompile for emulation of the PPE on ARM. The architecture would be completely scalable, so stick one in a handheld, two in a tablet, and 4 or more in a console. It probably couldn't hold a candle to a specific console design, but the versatility of the software, and they fact every game and app you buy could run on all your devices, would give commercial advantages. SPEs are 21 million transistors in their current guise though, which makes them pretty big compared to the other components. SGX543 is only 8mm^2 at 65nm, whereas SPURSEngine with 4 SPEs is 103 mm^2 at 65nm.What about the hardware that i wanted .. dreammode on here 2 cents etc....its not cell but something like ARM A15 cores Cortex customised/turbo/warp whatheaver as PPU + 6/8SPUs for BC and (you can laugh me
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