PowerVR Serie 5 is a DX9 chip?

[nggalai]

Hi Mephisto,

According to 3DCenter.de the Series5 will be DX9. This rumor is based on inside info from someone. The source will not be disclosed according to Leonidas.

Acutally, the "source" was his own mind, a guess based on "his own experience". 3D Center has a long track record inventing, extrapolating and guessing specs, just have a look at their older NV30, R300, RV250, ... speculation articles.

Well, yes--but we always clearly mark "speculation" as speculation. I was quite surprised about the update to the original article when I copy-edited the English version of 3DC's 2003 outlook (to be found here), but Leo is convinced of the validity of this piece of information, and determined not to disclose where it came from.

*shrug*

Such articles should always be taken at face-value, anyway.

ta,
-Sascha.rb

 

[Mephisto]

I was quite surprised about the update to the original article when I copy-edited the English version of 3DC's 2003 outlook, but Leo is convinced of the validity of this piece of information, and determined not to disclose where it came from.

What I say is just common sense. There is no reason why someone who realy knows about the series 5 specification (it's pretty obvious that there aren't many of them, especialy in germany!) is going to spread the word over a german special interrest site.

 

[nggalai]

What I say is just common sense. There is no reason why someone who realy knows about the series 5 specification (it's pretty obvious that there aren't many of them, especialy in germany!) is going to spread the word over a german special interrest site.

Hehe. True. But please don't forget that some of our Mods are game developers, while others have close ties to both IHV and software companies due to other reasons. Perhaps Leo's source is closer than one might think.

ta,
-Sascha.rb

P.S. and no, it wasn't me. I personally would like to see DX9 compliance with Series5, but I don't really believe in it just yet.rb

edit: typos galore . . . I need a drink.rb

 

[Mephisto]

Do you mean Harold's supposed statement, that the site had to withdraw because he never actually claimed something similar?

No. I'm talking about an article in PC Action (that's a print mag) based on talks with a Powervr PR manager (could be Harold, don't remember). It's common sense that the mag did not invent the story.

I listed a couple of speculated specs based on an old KYRO diagram (STG5000) and Fu's interview at Digitimes where he revealed the clockspeed. One and one makes two.

Kristof pointed out several times that these STG5000 diagrams are OLD. -> 1+1+1 = 3.

 

[Mephisto]

Hehe. True. But please don't forget that some of our Mods are game developers, ... Perhaps Leo's source is closer than one might think.

If it is who I think you mean, then I seriously doubt it.

 

[nggalai]

If it is who I think you mean, then I seriously doubt it.

Same here, hence the smiley.

The mod reference was only supposed to give an example of other possible sources outside PVR.

ta,
-Sascha.rb

 

[Dave Baumann]

If you are in the design phase of a part now, then there's little point in designing anything lower than PS/VS3.0.

 

[Teasy]

Tagrineth

Yeah, but PowerVR MBX is also a Series 3 derived core, which doesn't have pixel shaders and PS aren't jus something trivial to be added in on a whim.

He just said that the interview mentions that vertex shaders were brought forward from Series 4 to MBX, which suggests that Series 4 had a DX8.1 VS. He didn't say that pixel shaders were brought to MBX from Series 4.

At the time (when Kyro III was still allive) my info was that it was a straight DX7 part. But I suppose that info could have been slightly off and it could have been DX7 shaders and DX8 T&L. Unlikely given my source, but anythings possible I suppose.

 

[Simon F]

Leonidas chocolates? I've not heard of them in this country (UK).

Then you clearly don't have a Belgian colleague who brings back a box or two when he visits his homeland. It hasn't done my waistline any good whatsoever.

 

[Ailuros]

Do you mean Harold's supposed statement, that the site had to withdraw because he never actually claimed something similar?

No. I'm talking about an article in PC Action (that's a print mag) based on talks with a Powervr PR manager (could be Harold, don't remember). It's common sense that the mag did not invent the story.

I listed a couple of speculated specs based on an old KYRO diagram (STG5000) and Fu's interview at Digitimes where he revealed the clockspeed. One and one makes two.

Kristof pointed out several times that these STG5000 diagrams are OLD. -> 1+1+1 = 3.

Neither David Harold nor any other ImgTec official ever claimed/mentioned or implied dx8 compliance for the STG5500. There was a serious misinterpretation back then (from which source I can't remember anymore), where Harold's name was used, but the very same source had to officially withdraw, because Harold never stated such.

***edit: someone correct me here, but isn't David Harold head of the PR department at Imagination Technologies?

a) the original 5000 diagram did not mention anything about compliance

b) the way I saw it the difference between 5000 to 5500, was more in the direction of a smaller manufacturing process and higher clock speed for the latter.

c) even if someone takes Metcalfe's statement under accound that the VPE on MBX originates from Series4, there's no clear sign in the specifications that suggest dx8 or higher compliance.

ARM has by the way updated with a 1MB sized pdf it's MBX page, where the MBX HR-S gets more extensively analyzed than before. There the VGP is nothing else but a Vertex Geometry Processor which can also be used as hardwired T&L unit. Show me the Pixel shaders in there and I'll rest my case.

 

[Ailuros]

Leonidas chocolates? I've not heard of them in this country (UK).

Then you clearly don't have a Belgian colleague who brings back a box or two when he visits his homeland. It hasn't done my waistline any good whatsoever.

Your waistline can be grateful if you don't have a Swiss colleague there

 

[PC-Engine]

I still had hope, as of least year, that Series 4 would still be finished and at least be used in NAOMI 3. Ahhh well, still a chance for PowerVR to shine with Series 5

I thought SEGA now uses Nvidias NV2x for their Arcarde machines (or was this only a roumor)? As far as i know PowerVR now has a deal with IGT the marketleader in Arcarde sector !

CU ActionNews

SEGA supports the Xbox, GCN, and PS2 arcade variants, however, I expect NAOMI 3 to be based on PowerVR continuing the DC/NAOMI/PowerVR legacy

 

[ActionNews]

(...)
c) even if someone takes Metcalfe's statement under accound that the VPE on MBX originates from Series4, there's no clear sign in the specifications that suggest dx8 or higher compliance.
(...)

Hmm...you are right! I can't find any info that says VGP is DX8.1 compliant. But i could swear that i have read it in an offical anouncement! Don't know if i can find it again, but i'll keep on trying !

CU ActionNews

 

[ActionNews]

Sorry i can't find the exact source, but i found a hint in www.pvrgenerations.co.uk interview with Kristof Beets:

The Vertex Geometry Processor is a vertex shader designed for low size and power. It allows for programmable floating point operations as well as normal T&L to be done on-chip which means that it is a perfect companion to a CPU that, while powerful, might not have native floating point support.

( http://www.pvrgenerations.co.uk/cgi...articles/2002/kristof1102&printer=0&pagenum=2 )

Perhaps i can find something more !
BTW: Kristof i hope can tell us what's right?

CU ActionNews

 

[Ailuros]

The VGP is a VS1.1 compliant Vertex Shader, which applies to dx8.1. (By the way I should be aware what's included in that interview LOL).

So again where's the pixel shader?

 

[ActionNews]

As i said: I don't think Series 4 has/had a Pixel Shader. At least i don't have any hint or even evidence.

(BTW: Where did you find that snipet about VGP in the PowerVR Generations interview? Shame on me, but i can't find it :? )

CU ActionNews

 

[Ailuros]

Just read that one; it's been added only recently and it's got detailed enough info about MBX and the VGP:

http://www.arm.com/techdocs/5ETJKM/$File/DTO0003B_MBX.pdf?OpenElement

 

[ActionNews]

AH! Thank you!

CU ActionNews

 

[Teasy]

there's no clear sign in the specifications that suggest dx8 or higher compliance.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2229

 

[RAnta]

STG5000

Just a speculation but since the KyroII was extremely fast in stencil operation is it safe to assume that Series5 will be faster in this area and will that mean that doom3 will fly since Doom3 uses stencil shadows extensively.

Not that i think the Doom3 engine will be succesfull.

Bear in mind that im a noob in this area and that english is my second language.