Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)

[wco81]

It depends on the pricing. If Neo is $400 later this year or very early in 2017, it should have some decent sales, especially if it's seen as a good value compared to other UHD Blu Ray players at the time.

Then when Scorpio is released in November 2017, MS would have a huge advantage if it came in at $400.

But if it releases at $500, it would be a different story.

 

[AlNom]

How do the res/framerate requirements compare between Rifty Geezer and Vita Reality?

 

[wco81]

After VR, maybe Sony and MS don't bother with mid-cycle upgrades.

 

[Rangers]

It depends on the pricing. If Neo is $400 later this year or very early in 2017, it should have some decent sales, especially if it's seen as a good value compared to other UHD Blu Ray players at the time.

Then when Scorpio is released in November 2017, MS would have a huge advantage if it came in at $400.

But if it releases at $500, it would be a different story.

This kind of hardware can demand a premium IMO.

My guess thinking about it right now is 499 for larger HDD model, 399 for smaller HDD model. Slight possibility it could cost even more.

 

[function]

Haven't you paid attention about the whole esram predicament this gen?

Esram was a failure on pretty much all accounts. Unified 320GB/s bandwidth is comparatively heaven on earth on pretty much all accounts.

I seem to have paid more attention to it than most. Esram was certainly not a failure on all accounts.

Esram was very successful relative to its design goals. It's the design goals that were wrong.

People have difficulty differentiating between those two things!

 

[function]

Is it possible to design an SOC with CPU and GPU access to esram? Might be able a way to get BC on Scorpio and have the esram be useful for future titles.

You could, but it would be more customisation - which is to say time and money. If we're moving to a future of "release and dump" for consoles on a 3 or 4 year timespan, and if you're not constrained by X1 like power and noise levels, then committing to a large pool of more expensive memory and a big interface isn't such a risk.

So... how big is a Zen Core.

It has to be considerably bigger than Jag would be on the same node, given its massive jump in IPC and its big ol chunk of L3. So far, poured over shots of a single PR wafer shot are all we have to go off though ...

... something something Zen Lite.

 

[goonergaz]

The way I see it is Sony have 2 choices but I see the end result the same;

1) launch as planned "the most powerful console on the planet" and enjoy ~1 year of that title until Scorpio but have the price advantage
2) delay and try to close the gap (I hear they can only close it at best) and launch with a more competetive model at a similar price

Either way I think Sony have this gen in the bag, it's too little too late from PS (if power is the most important factor for people). I think have PS5 penned for 2019 so MS likely have only 2 years of "tthe most powerful console on the planet" and let's face it, Sony could reveal PS5 in 2018 - a year after Scorpio to wee on MSs chips with their 8/10TF true next-gen machine.

I also think XBox Next will be in 2020 with that as the name (as in 2020 vision)

 

[pjbliverpool]

It's about 50% (obviously) so, it's about the same as PS4 is over XBO. I'd argue that (sadly?) that's proven to be a lot and a big deal. Oh and top of that Scorpio has 50% more memory, where XBO and PS4 are equal in that area.

I talk about power being so key but sometimes it's scary how much. Like, I think even a 10% difference is REALLY huge as a purchasing factor. It kinda shouldn't be that way, but in reality it is. If you have a 6.6TF system and a 6.0 TF system, the 6.6 one is gonna have a big edge all equal.

Don't forget the CPU as well. XB1 actually has a faster CPU than PS4 but Scorpio, it it really is running Zen as the rumours suggest should have a significantly faster CPU than Neo.

 

[Grall]

The difference between XBO and PS4 is 0.5 TF and is somehow the stuff of Galaxy Killers (amaze balls). Now the difference between XBScorpio and PSNeo is 1.8TF, an entire PS4, and now its magically not a lot.

Not sure who ever said that .5TF was "amaze balls" and "Galaxy Killers"... You are thinking of fanboys on some other website, yes?

Scorpy will have a comfortable lead over Neo, sure, but will it translate into tangible IQ advantage for the platform? The extra performance of Scorps will come at a price - literally, unless MS is willing to go back to the bad old days of paying through the nose again selling at a huge loss - so Neo would likely be cheaper. All other factors being the same, "cheaper" in the console space typically means "more popular", and PS4 has so far had the momentum this generation, so if the same pattern re-emerges then there might not be all that big a difference between games after all.

With development costs being what they are for games these days, would multiplatform Scorperinos games really take advantage of that additional PS4 of power? On PC, you can get extra frames per second (especially with gsynch/freesynch monitors), but consoles peg at 60fps. Non-VR, that is.

We'll just have to wait and see. It's pretty exciting though, we haven't had such a clear power differential in a long time in the console space, especially if Scorpikins also features Zen CPU cores. Then we're looking at a new xbox/PS2 power dynamic. (The extra power didn't help MS much that time tho.)

 

[goonergaz]

Not according to the Internet. The difference between XBO and PS4 is 0.5 TF and is somehow the stuff of Galaxy Killers (amaze balls). Now the difference between XBScorpio and PSNeo is 1.8TF, an entire PS4, and now its magically not a lot. Maybe its because it's Sony that is on the wrong side of the comparison.

I'm not disagreeing with what your logic is, that it's the proportions are the same, but if its Galaxy Killer Amaze Balls now, it'll still be that later.

Proportionally it's the same gap PS4 to XBO which many gamers (apparently) can't see unless they are comparring 'side by side'. The difference is I can't imagine the noticable difference for 1080p to 4k is that great unless you have some ultra-huge TV or sit too close...so overall for the average gamer I think with Neo giving us potentially 1080p60 the difference might be even snaller than it is today.

 

[Jay]

I personally couldn't see a huge difference, but with all the 500% blowing up screenshots to compare, framerate breakdowns, I came to the realisation that it didn't matter what i could see.
in the end it's rarely so close it's a wash(even if it nearly always is for me), there's a winner and that's all that seemed to matter and propagate the huge power difference that I personally couldn't see.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As Scorpio is reportedly just XB1 in 4K, with no improved visuals, Neo is likely to completely trounce it for the majority of gamers. The choice is PS4 quality games at 4K or better than PS4 quality games at 1080p, the res most gamers will be playing at. Probably the prefered res if there's notable additional eye candy.

Either that or both next devices are going to be extremely pointless, offering barely any improvement for the money, and they'll die hard.

 

[Globalisateur]

But there won't be Scorpio exclusive console games

'console games' ? Who is fluent in Spencer-ish?

 

[Karamazov]

Just PR talk. It's smart to tell now that the only difference would be resolution, they still want to sell xbox ones S until scoprio releases.
By then, devs will certainly have choice to do whatever they want with the extra power.

 

[liolio]

How does canceling Neo make any sense?

The difference between 4.2TF and 6TF isn't a lot, and Sony have a lot of momentum. I'm not seeing it causing a big reversal in sales, it will only help MS get back on track.

It makes sense as it is unlikely to them much good, they lost the dick context thanks to MSFT announcing a new more powerful system set to launch next year.
Neo is going to sort of break their user base, bother the publishers without realizing the goals for the system which I guess are providing highest quality VR or support for higher resolutions and framerate (on console obviously).
Msft is shortening this gen, in my opinion the Neo is to bind Sony further in this gen and delay their reaction to MSFT moves (Pc + scorpio). Neo is to raise, even though slightly the development costs, split even though slightly their user base, etc. Much a do about nothing and a move against their best interest at this point (keep Msft well in the back seat till the next round of console). To me the Neo no longer fit the landscape.
Another thing is I think is that Msft move and design choices for their next generation system may be a little anticipated and forced, it is a bet just that guts feeling, but i would not surprise me if Sony can make better choices than if they give them self max an extra year to ready their(s) systems(s).

As for the difference between the systems, it could be a lot, there is FLOPS, pixel rate, bandwidth, CPU max serial performances, the overall memory set-up, etc.
That is the rational side for perception... I would expect it to be worse.

If it is to late to cancel well...they should be wise to lower their production estimate as I can easily the thing turn into a device collectors like.

 

[goonergaz]

It makes sense as it is unlikely to them much good, they lost the dick context thanks to MSFT announcing a new more powerful system set to launch next year.
Neo is going to sort of break their user base, bother the publishers without realizing the goals for the system which I guess are providing highest quality VR or support for higher resolutions and framerate (on console obviously).
Msft is shortening this gen, in my opinion the Neo is to bind Sony further in this gen and delay their reaction to MSFT moves (Pc + scorpio). Neo is to raise, even though slightly the development costs, split even though slightly their user base, etc. Much a do about nothing and a move against their best interest at this point (keep Msft well in the back seat till the next round of console). To me the Neo no longer fit the landscape.
Another thing is I think is that Msft move and design choices for their next generation system may be a little anticipated and forced, it is a bet just that guts feeling, but i would not surprise me if Sony can make better choices than if they give them self max an extra year to ready their(s) systems(s).

As for the difference between the systems, it could be a lot, there is FLOPS, pixel rate, bandwidth, CPU max serial performances, the overall memory set-up, etc.
That is the rational side for perception... I would expect it to be worse.

If it is to late to cancel well...they should be wise to lower their production estimate as I can easily the thing turn into a device collectors like.

What? So rather let MS have the tail end with no competition? We're talking a similar performance gap to what there is currently (only reversed) and MS managed to sell a half-dencent amount of consoles...if they cancel Sony surrender a chunck of gamers but if they continue they offer a comparable option. Also, as I said before, Sony could announce PS5 in 2018 'planning for next gen starts now' meaning Scorpio might only be on the market for less than a year and already Sony get bragging rights back.

 

[trainplane]

Sony has likely carefully planned Neo for a long time to be released in early 2017 to meet many of its own internal goals. Sony, as the market leader, is going to scrap all that, throw VR under the bus, and redo Neo which pushes it out likely after 2017 because they found out about Scorpio? Unlikely.

I also don't see Sony trying to push out PS5 in 2019 as an answer to Scorpio. Assuming Neo comes out in early 2017, 2019 would be 2 and a half years, just too soon. It's like people think Sony is in panic mode with Scorpio.

Incidently, I was listening to Giant Bomb podcast 6/14 and they mentioned some definite technical issues with Sony VR on PS4 (having to stop a game because memory buffer was full, etc). Granted, these are not final games, but the issues do show a limitation on PS4 VR.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Games in development crash? No way!

Lazy de.. No, I'm not saying it.

 

[trainplane]

Games in development crash? No way!

Lazy de.. No, I'm not saying it.

It isn't about crashing. Listen to the Giant Bombcast to get the full context. It was some sort of drawing game and the user had to erase their current work to start a new one because the buffer was full. Something to that effect. There were other examples too.

Oh, and that's not the main point of my post anyway.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The talk about Sony redesigning Neo is as dumb as the talk about Microsoft re-specing Xbox One once it and PS4's specs were known. It's fanboy fantasy and utter nonsense. I can only repeat what I said back then, switching Microsoft (then) for Sony (now).

Sony's goal is not to produce the most powerful console, it's goal is to produce a profitable business.

The people who think believe it's really important for your preferred company to have the most powerful console conveniently overlook that there is no consistent correlation between relative console performance and commercial success. None. There is correlation between price and commercial success. That's not to say that there isn't a market for powerful consoles.

People on this forum are out of their bloody minds if they think fanboy priorities are how companies design products.