Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)

[Michellstar]

Based on the rumours apparently some console is releasing this fall. And we know it's not NX. And MS is unlikely.


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But the info was from AMD Point of view, if they ramp production with definitive specs at Q3, Would it count as a 2016 design? Does Sony has to pay in advance? How long a modern chip takes to make?

What i mean is that the soc it´s just a piece of the puzzle, It could launch next year

 

[iroboto]

But the info was from AMD Point of view, if they ramp production with definitive specs at Q3, Would it count as a 2016 design? Does Sony has to pay in advance? How long a modern chip takes to make?

What i mean is that the soc it´s just a piece of the puzzle, It could launch next year

True. The entire supply chain will be critical to the launch of the device. AMD is being sourced for the SOC but if they have issues acquiring RAM for instance that could either delay the whole production line or there would be limited units available at launch.

That being said Sony is good at distribution. I think if they targeted for this fall they will hit it. The Kits are out with developers (apparently) perhaps not the final kit, but that sounds much farther along than any other console at this moment.


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[Deleted member 7537]

Far far cheaper for Microsoft

For the customers no more expensive than PC, and if also compatible with that device that's a lot of content ready and waiting, possibly also cross platform compatibility then.

They may slip in with mk2 headset or similar with cost reductions , DRM on the Oculus side means you can sell the console headset cheaper and lock it out the PC space if you wanted. Keep both parties happy with managing price differences.

The CPU may just be specified to make VR possible if they go Oculus, Jaguar does not seem even close to Oculus Min spec. Neo cannot help with ports if PS4 vanilla must be the base release.

Well, XB doesn't compete against the PC, they are competing against Sony.

If PS4neo+VR releases at 800$/€, and you have to spend a 1100€/1000$ (OR 700€/600$) to buy an XB1.5 + OR, then MS is in a severe disadvantage. And that's giving that XB1.5 and PS4neo will release at the same price which, if the rumours are true, seems highly unlikely.

And, about Jaguar, i'm sure if U4 had been made for PC, it's minimum CPU requirements would have been much higher than Jaguar specs. Comparing PC requirements to Console specs is useless. According to people that have tried it, PSVR provides a similar experience to OR, and that was playing games running on the OGPS4.

 

[ultragpu]

At this point I'm wondering how much support Neo will receive on day one, if it releases near year end then surely it will support most if not all major multiplats around that time frame right if according to the rumored documents? The last thing I want is to wait a few months for the actual Neo enhanced experience. And we don't even know just how many previously released multiplat games would get enhancement patches if much at all. Say running COD at 1080/locked 60 with very high setting is just not enough of an incentive since the OG ps4 version doesn't look or run too differently. BF1 would be a nice improvement tho if it's 1080/60 at very high to ultra? Having enough power is one thing tho enough support with satisfying result is another. This is seriously a wait and see situation lol.

 

[Globalisateur]

From GAF:

 

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From GAF:

That's funnier than it reasonably should be.

 

[milk]

Having enough power is one thing tho enough support with satisfying result is another. This is seriously a wait and see situation lol.

Yeah, right? I'm sceptical of great improvements until proven different.

 

[Jay]

are people expecting great improvement though? Or are you guys just talking specifically about yourselves?

1080p60, screenshots blown up 500% to show slightly better aa, and couple more blades of grass here and there should be enough to justify the machines. Agreed that's not enough for everyone though
more so if taking vr into account.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well, XB doesn't compete against the PC, they are competing against Sony.

Xbox is Microsoft and Microsoft on PC are competing against Steam and the other stores and services There are finite amount of gamers with a finite amount of money to spend on games so everything is competing with everything else.

 

[milk]

1080p60, screenshots blown up 500% to show slightly better aa, and couple more blades of grass here and there should be enough to justify the machines. Agreed that's not enough for everyone though
more so if taking vr into account.

Enough for what? To sell to a very niche segment? Yeah. To garner mass market commercial apeal? Questionable.

 

[eastmen]

PS4 mass manufacture started in August for November launch with 1-1.25M consoles per month.

I don't think Sony will order that quantity of Neos.

But that was production of the finished product. So the other parts to make up the whole would already be in production since they would be made at say GF and shipped to where Foxcon was assembling the systems. So manufacturing would have had to have started a few weeks or more before August.

That is why I think they'd be finalizing everything now or already in production of things like the APU

 

[AlNom]

are people expecting great improvement though?

Greaterness Awaits

 

[Jay]

Enough for what? To sell to a very niche segment? Yeah. To garner mass market commercial apeal? Questionable.

personally i think the slim and ps4 vanilla is for the mass market, and general appeal.

these ones wont be until they drop in price.

high end is usually a niche product by definition. Will they do well enough to be considered a success or not a failure by the respective companies, I think they will be fine.

 

[turkey]

Well, XB doesn't compete against the PC, they are competing against Sony.

If PS4neo+VR releases at 800$/€, and you have to spend a 1100€/1000$ (OR 700€/600$) to buy an XB1.5 + OR, then MS is in a severe disadvantage. And that's giving that XB1.5 and PS4neo will release at the same price which, if the rumours are true, seems highly unlikely.

And, about Jaguar, i'm sure if U4 had been made for PC, it's minimum CPU requirements would have been much higher than Jaguar specs. Comparing PC requirements to Console specs is useless. According to people that have tried it, PSVR provides a similar experience to OR, and that was playing games running on the OGPS4.

I was trying to get across not competing but joining but console price different to pc, so more on Xbox selling OR cheaper possibly subsidised or with different BOM and Oculus not wanting this to alter their headset so they lock it out of PC for the time being. Thus the cost for xbox1.5 and OR may be tailored to be close to neo and vr. Not Microsoft locking it behind DRM to fight pc, simply the mechanism seems there to easily have an Xbox OC and price it different whilst keeping the hardware identical to help developers.

CPU specs possibly but OR pc has very specific CPU specs even listing models, developers can target near console level optimisations I assume.

The feel of vr may be similar, which is more refresh rate and hmd technology than CPU power atm, I have only seen very simple tech demos so far, nothing that looks to tax a CPU outside of the very short frame times. Time will tell I suppose,

Console exclusive to pc is hard as U4 will use a shed load of compute not available on low end GPUs so the CPU will have to take the strain, but yes the closed safe nature of not having windows or antivirus running amok on the CPU probably pays dividends.

 

[Megadrive1988]

If I had to guess...

Neo is using either Polaris 10 or the older generation GCN, with equivalent active CUs (36 / 40).
Scorpio will use something a bit more custom that is between Vega 11 and Vega 10 in terms of size and GPU resources.

 

[AlNom]

Neo is using either Polaris 10 or the older generation GCN, with equivalent active CUs (36 / 40).

Probably makes sense to just use the Polaris IP blocks since AMD has that all done for 14nmFF.

 

[Megadrive1988]

The only reason I mentioned that, is some have suggested a Polaris GPU would break binary compatibility with PS4. I'm no hardware expert or programmer. If Polaris doesn't make anything an issue, that is all well and good.

 

[Pixel]

If Xbox utilizes both Zen cpu architecture and HBM2, I think the allure of a more powerful console will be much greater than Sony realizes. Even if NEO is 20% cheaper (~$100 cheaper). And this will put Sony in a dilemma. Once there is a discrepancy in the sales Sony can't just fasttrack the release of an even better NEO2 without consequences, without spurning their loyal hardcore gamers who just purchased the original NEO.

Historically, more powerful consoles have always suffered a cosmically vast absolutely gargantuan difference in software, 3DO vs SNES, XBOX vs PS2, Jaguar vs SNES, Gamecube vs PS2, Lynx/Gamergear vs Gameboy. This time there will be no difference in 3rd party support, and arguably an even a slight advantage for Xbox One for 1st party.

Take computers for example, if you were shopping for a gaming pc and could get a computer for $100 more that ran games 50% faster most would.

PS4 was never really 50% more powerful even on paper as it suffered from memory bandwidth limitations, and had slightly inferior cpu performance. PS4 NEO again may suffer a similar memory bandwidth bottleneck, which may further widen the performance gap between Neo and Scorpio if scorpio utilizes HBM2. The visual gap between Neo and Scorpio in 1st party titles could be even greater than 3rd party games. Core gamers in the european markets who are overwehelmingly Sony may forgo their historic loyalty if there is only $100 price difference yet a large performance difference.

 

[milk]

Historically, more powerful consoles have always suffered a cosmically vast absolutely gargantuan difference in software, 3DO vs SNES, XBOX vs PS2, Jaguar vs SNES, Gamecube vs PS2, Lynx/Gamergear vs Gameboy. This time there will be no difference in 3rd party support, and arguably an even a slight advantage for Xbox One for 1st party.

Why exactly?

 

[Globalisateur]

If Xbox utilizes both Zen cpu architecture and HBM2, I think the allure of a more powerful console will be much greater than Sony realizes. Even if NEO is 20% cheaper (~$100 cheaper). And this will put Sony in a dilemma. Once there is a discrepancy in the sales Sony can't just fasttrack the release of an even better NEO2 without consequences, without spurning their loyal hardcore gamers who just purchased the original NEO.

Historically, more powerful consoles have always suffered a cosmically vast absolutely gargantuan difference in software, 3DO vs SNES, XBOX vs PS2, Jaguar vs SNES, Gamecube vs PS2, Lynx/Gamergear vs Gameboy. This time there will be no difference in 3rd party support, and arguably an even a slight advantage for Xbox One for 1st party.

Take computers for example, if you were shopping for a gaming pc and could get a computer for $100 more that ran games 50% faster most would.

PS4 was never really 50% more powerful even on paper as it suffered from memory bandwidth limitations, and had slightly inferior cpu performance. PS4 NEO again may suffer a similar memory bandwidth bottleneck, which may further widen the performance gap between Neo and Scorpio if scorpio utilizes HBM2. The visual gap between Neo and Scorpio in 1st party titles could be even greater than 3rd party games. Core gamers in the european markets who are overwhelmingly Sony may forgo their historic loyalty if there is only $100 price difference yet a large performance difference.

Your claim isn't supported by facts.

People that didn't buy XB1 for Halo and Forza won't buy Scorpio to play those games at a higher res. People that want to only play multplat games at a higher resolution / framerates will buy PCs (as they do currently), not Scorpios.

If Scorpio have Zen + HBM2 it will be a new generation of Xbox that will have to compete with...any PC running Windows 10. People will still buy Playstation to play PS games. People bought PS4 not only because of the power difference but also because of the promise (mostly fulfilled) of some great future PS only games thanks to PS3 steady release of quality exclusives until the end (and even after) when Microsoft let X360 die well before XB1 was released.