I dont
Aw how can you not? They are so....whats the word for it...Lamboish...I love the Reventon but not its ridiculous price tag. And OMG the noise they make...*sigh*...what dont you like about them?
Porsche calls Nissan cheaters!
- Thread starter Cheezdoodles
- Start date
Aw how can you not? They are so....whats the word for it...Lamboish...I love the Reventon but not its ridiculous price tag. And OMG the noise they make...*sigh*...what dont you like about them?
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
The fact the intirior in your 100+k Gallardo is ripped from a audi A3 to begin with?
You know, I see this so often from elitists like yourself. It's quite sad really.
I have friends that own expensive "super cars" as they rent them for affluent people to use when they are in town. I've driven most of these cars myself, first hand for special occasions with my wife as my friends are nice people. I also see just how often all of them are at the dealer getting things repaired or serviced. Some of them are rather nice, most I haven't been impressed with performance wise. Still, I'd worry about any of them if I had to drive it cross country at anything other than a cruise control pace on the interstate.
Now, I happen to own a 1997 Supra Turbo 6spd. It has all stock parts with the exception of an upgraded turbo (this is the only changed part). This car puts out very near 650bhp, has a 70-0 braking distance of 149ft (stock figure, compare that to an Enzo which is 151ft
) and pulls 0.93g cornering (not the best, but it IS 10 years old...) It can reach just over 200mph if you give it the room (silver state classic runs). I have owned this car since 1999 and it has yet to have anything ever done to it besides an oil change and tires. The "big wing", you so acutely point out, was put there by Toyota engineers to generate the required down force at high speeds to keep the car stable. I forget the exact down force figures, but it's not a cosmetic part. I seem to remember the Enzo having an even larger wing actually. I drive the Supra hard and it's certainly not a dyno queen. You can't even speak of reliability when compared to the over priced exotics you are swooning over. There is flat out, no comparison.
Plain and simple, you want exclusivity, you buy a Ferrari or something similar. You want to be fast, reliable and not spend your last $$$ purchasing and fixing it... You look into other cars. The Supra being one of the best cars ever made that fits these descriptions.
Have you ever driven a single car you are slathering over?
Now, to keep on topic with the OP (Sorry for the derail here), who knows what the deal is between Porche/Nissan. I think there's a lot to be said though for the fact that when independent magazines test both Porche and Nissan products with the same driver that the Nissan has been coming out on top in most cases.
So, I'll reiterate the 'sour grapes' comment on the side of Porche.
I also think it's sour grapes.
Nissan responds:
"The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tires which are available to customers in the showroom. They're not trick tires – absolutely standard tires, normal road tires."
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/03/nissan-defends-gt-r-ring-time/
Nissan responds:
"The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tires which are available to customers in the showroom. They're not trick tires – absolutely standard tires, normal road tires."
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/03/nissan-defends-gt-r-ring-time/
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Sad or not, believing your supra will beat a Enzo on the track that is sad because really it wont. If a 10 year old car with only a turbo upgrade would really beat the likes of a Enzo nobody would be racing with these types of cars. Every racing class would be full op Japanese cars as they clearly would be faster. But they dont for the simple fact a friggin supra aint faster than a Enzo unless you rebuild the whole thing in which case you can hardly call it a original car anymore. Just a new car with a old body.
Have you tried pulling of a emergency stop at 200mph? because that is what the Enzo will do and your Supra wont. Its know Carbon brakes arnt really the best when it comes to lower speeds. They are made for high speed braking.
Do you expect me to believe a 650bhp car in 10 years time never needed any service? Kinda sounds like bullshit to me. Even a factory Evo needs its turbo's serviced every 5k and I wont honestly believe your car didnt have something that needed replacement in 10 years time unless you never drive it. Even a normal road car needs parts replaced and if Japanese can make a 10 year old 650bhp car go withouth breaking than why arnt all their others cars not breaking down either? how hard could that be to do if you can do it with a 10 year old 650bhp car?
Riiiight. Just for fun google enzo wing and supra wing under google images. The Enzo doesnt have anything more than a little ''flip'' that can also raise up a bit during braking. Kinda like the Mclaren F1 had.
Than it shouldnt be hard for others to come close to the times Nissan claimes. Now I havnt really been keeping track of times but when the GTR came out I heard reports of reports that couldnt get close to that time. But not sure how that stands now.
There are many factors that can affect track times...
Driver/weather/temp/track conditions/tires etc.
Maybe all Nissan needed was ideal track conditions with an ex F-1 driver and the optional Dunlops? If you want to believe Porsche then go ahead no skin off my back.
There's a video of the lap in GT5P on PS3, I think the two wet portions of the track confirm that he wasn't on slicks.
Right, so sorry.. I got it mixed up with the F-40.
This was never enzo vs supra anyway.. it was your ridiculous claim that a Japanese sports car doesn't hold a candle to your beloved Italian ones. The problem is, numbers don't lie and the repair history and performance of every Ferrari I've driven is not worth the 10x price tag. You get less for more. Any real car enthusiast will recognize this and give credit where it's due.
Not you of course!
Finally, the reason the Supra wasn't raced more heavily was because most sanctioned racing bodies prohibit forced induction or limit it severely due to the possibility of extremely high power output vs other vehicles in the same class that lack forced induction. There are, of course, a few that allow it; but not many.
I wish you luck with your future Ferrari purchase. Be sure to let us know how that "service the turbo every 5k miles" goes on your wallet. You haven't driven anything that you claim is so much better (while I have) so your opinion isn't worth squat. Therefore, I'm done talking to you about it
Well, here's a bit of a list for you to ponder: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3117246&postcount=14
I'll pull the part that I think is important out for you here: 7:21 --- 168.163 km/h -- Blitz Supra, 650 PS (Autocar magazine 1997) (Nurburgring track time)
And one of my favorite supra vids: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Very-Fast-Supra-on-the_61126.htm
Good day sir!
/end derail (sorry again!, done this time)
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Because they dont (well, the GTR is something else, but ur supra aint). Not unless you start modifing the hell out of them but hey you can stick bi-turbo's on your F430 too.
And here comes the million dollar question: How much of that car is what you get when you buy a supra from the factory? Not much is my guess. Its not even close to being stock anymore. That would be like ''upgrading'' your Enzo with the FXX evolutzione pack (Which shouldnt be that hard since the FXX is based on the Enzo chassis) and say its still a Enzo. Not really.
And yes sure if its only speed you want a souped up supra is better value for money than any supercar. But if its speed you want buy something like a donkervoort and you'll laugh at all other cars and pay even less.
@Davros: Ahh the XJ220, awsome car. To bad Jaguar couldnt afford the V12 the car deserved and put in a V6.
Forced induction really has no limits, during the crazy turbo years in motorsports the manufacturers pulled out 1,5k hp out of 2 litre engines, easy to see why the restrictions came into place.
Um... Italian cars and engineering?
You live in some kind of dream world.
If you want engineering perfection, you either buy german and sometimes japanese.
Italian cars do have passion and styling but "engineering" is not one of their strenghts. If you want a car thats build well and that lasts, you buy german or you buy japanese.
I dunno how you can attribute "something that is made that way because it is the best that way" to italian cars.
Huh? What are you smoking? Ofcourse jaguar could have afforded to put a V12 in that car, it had nothing to do with money.
The V12 would struggle to meet emmision standarts and they had problems with manufacturing it. twin turbo v6 was deemed the best solution and it probably was.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I think you confuse reliability with enegeering. The 430 scuderia is a advanced piece of engineering for example. I havnt seen anybody else produce a 60ms gearbox for example.
Not really. The car was made during the 90's crisis years so (potential) sales went down the drain (just as happend with the Mclaren F1 for example). Jaguar opted to put in a v6 because it would save alot of money compared to when they needed to make a v12 for it. Sure, Jaguar could have paid for it but their costumers couldnt and that is why they went for the v6.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_XJ220
Design and emission problems, not cost.
Still, the poxy V6 twin turbo engine gave it more grunt than the V12 would've anyway so I fail to see your point.
Turbos > Naturally aspirated.
Design and emission problems, not cost.
Still, the poxy V6 twin turbo engine gave it more grunt than the V12 would've anyway so I fail to see your point.
Turbos > Naturally aspirated.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Wiki isnt always right. It was on I believe a old TG show (from the really old days) that they said it didnt got the v12 because of costs. I believe it was in the episode where they also drove the Bugatti EB something.
I happen to have a 1987 Toyota Supra Turbo that is stock even to the original cassette tape player and the turbo has never been serviced and I use the car daily.
I also happen to not allow anyone else to drive it as I have owned the car since 1998 and most of my friends/relatives think I am a dick for not letting them drive it and do god knows what and then have me pay for it.
Basically this is how cars work, you beat them up, expect to pay ridiculously for service because everything will wear out or you learn how to drive your car, take it to the limits and gently bring it back down and your turbo will live a long life.
As a matter of fact that is the main problem that Turbo charged cars have had, ignorant owner/drivers who think its ok to just turn the car on and race it, not pay attention to oil pressure/quality/service, not pay attention to other details like pressure hoses for the intercooler, fluid cooler, air filter, etc and worst of all after reaching high speeds making sudden stops where they stop the car not 2 minutes and shut it off without paying attention to how hot the engine and the turbo can get specially during the summer months and thats the real reason why some cars get serviced repeatedly.
However when it comes to Italian cars like Ferrari or Lamborgini it won't matter if you take care of them, because you cannot really use them as daily drivers as they will simply break down far too often, thats why it was mentioned that for engineering you would go for a German make or a Japanese make.