upnorthsox
Veteran
I don't know, I'd guess 4.
4) there can't be much more damning of Move
Now I guess we could talk about the nuances of what damning means.........
Playstation Move Games
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I don't know, I'd guess 4.
4) there can't be much more damning of Move
Now I guess we could talk about the nuances of what damning means.........
But if I wanted to play table tennis I'd join a table tennis club, however playing my 8yo at table tennis won't be much of a contest and likely lead to frustration on her part. Also, any of the 'real sports' people who feel the need to practice would surely do it for real and not even consider playing video games to 'help' - all that would do is hinder them IMHO as you'd need the actual component in their hand...Kinect tho (not wishing to go OT)...if it proves to be acqurate could do well to 'train' people to do all sorts of things, we've seen yoga but what about posture for sports and general walking.
If I can play on Gold and my wife can play on Bronze and beat me, that for me is a big win and a huge advantage over real table tennis (I actually haven't checked if Champion is now available in 2 player mode)
I have a big itch to play the real thing again sometime soon now.
(I've been too ill the last days to even think about playing the SC version)
I have a big itch to play the real thing again sometime soon now.
(I've been too ill the last days to even think about playing the SC version)If you wouldn't make such outrageous assumptions based on extremely limited information, I wouldn't have to question anyone's thoughts. Just seems like the rapid spreading of misinformation and FUD to me.
Actually, I don't think the Shifty's comment is outrageous. It's a rather common mindset for consumers at large. I believe they have the same expectation (if I'm good in TT, I should be able to win).
It takes time to tune the motion controls to suit "everyone". I suspect a lot of hacks and voodoos are needed. ^_^
It takes time to tune the motion controls to suit "everyone". I suspect a lot of hacks and voodoos are needed. ^_^
well quite, I was trying to say it's going to attract more people than put off...other than this advantage (levelling the playing field) it's obviously more accessable and takes up less space!!
I think that's him tho (not a dig shifty) - it's like when he was dissing LBP, it came across like he hated the game when he doesn't - I'm really bad at getting my point across also and often people think I'm being a 'fanboi' but sometimes you have to realise without facial (or even audiable) hints you have to take what people say (or type) less 'seriously'
Outrageous assumptions?! Outrageous?! If we wanted an accurate use of the word 'outrageous' I'd say your use of it qualifies! Is it really a wild assumption to think a steering wheel in a racing simulation game will have the virtual car turning like a real car? Or that a gun-type controller shoots where you point it? Is it really a wild assumption to look at a handheld motion controller held like a table-tennis bat, and a table-tennis game on screen, and to expect the mechanics to be closely tied? And as such, to expect the person with years of TT experience to have an advantage? Does that assumption become all the more
outrageous when you have seen Sony's adverts like these, and see 1:1 virtual gameplay with an arrow trajectory determined between two Move controllers as if stretched across a real bow, and to hear phrases like, "anyone can flick their wrist like a chump. Real masters like me use precision man," and, "...It makes...Sport Champions as real as it gets," to then expect a gameplay experience that is fairly true to life, and thus favour those with prior experience?Viewing Move from the POV of the doubters, those who'd say Move is just Wii HD, surely seeing a novice beat a pro in a game like table-tennis is evidence to support that view. I'm not saying that's the whole picture, and it's an OUTRAGEOUS assumption to think I believe one single sample of information is enough to formulate a valid opinion. However, Joe Schmo is the sort of person who will jump the gun, and seeing this single example, I am certain some folk (no idea of the numbers) will have said, "that's rubbish," upon seeing the table-tennis pro unable to return a ball, with some blaming the guy himself, and some blaming the system.
Exactly, it´s a way of leveling the playing field to get some more nerve in the multiplayer games, which I think is great.
How can that possibly be seen as a bad thing?
Seems to me a lot of people take the last-thing-read as being the sole opinion of whoever wrote it. I was watching Time Team today, the archeology programme. At the beginning they looked at the evidence and formulated an opinion on what the castle was about. Then on day 2 they considered the latest evidence from digs and changed their mind. Day three and they had changed their mind again. Personally I don't have a problem with engaging a flow of ideas, but it sounds as if some people here would rather they spend the programme saying, "we don't know," until the end where they can say, "looking at all the facts we think its this."
I presented one single sample of info, no different to me saying, "I saw a Youtube video of Kinect and the skeleton tracking was plain broken," or, "I tried Wii Tennis and the input bares no relation to what you're really doing with the controller, such that you can win by just waggling the controller." I guess as I never criticise any of them, people are bound to be suspcious of my anti-Move stance.
From the viewpoint of a Gadget Show viewer, I can't see the Move demo as being a great advertisement for Move as it seemed a bit Wii. Does anyone here think that if Move gets branded by the masses as nothing more than WiiHD, that wouldn't be damning for the platform, when it can do so much more? And anyone who thinks I've a negative position on Move just hasn't followed my many posts on the new controllers! I dare say many also read the exclamation mark as an angry hate-mark, instead of an eyes-wide-open...
, but that's a tiny thing in what was just a single sample that doesn't merit such wild arm-waving IMO.
I doubt anyone does consider it a bad thing, although having thought that, in titles like Mario Kart there are those who praise its levelling of the play field with assists and those who condemn its robbing the game of any skills. I suppose at the end of the day in depends on how competitive the players feel and whether the better players are happy to be beaten by less-capable players, or if they feel their better skill should result in a win as is the whole point of skill based games. But options is never bad. If in doubt about a game design choice, make it a menu option!
Kinda funny to see you on that particular high-horse.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1477082#post1477082
Well, maybe not funny, as it's kind of pathetic to see to be honest.
While I agree it may be a bit strong, on further thought it's possibly only a little bit strong. As you haven't seen the program, let me explain what it was about (or this segment of it, anyway). Each of the 5 presenters of the show was to take part in a gaming challenge against a recognised expert in the field that the particular game was representing.
So you had a professional rapper competing in DefJam Rapster on the 360, a TV quiz king on Buzz on the PS3, a professional motorcycle racer on the Ipad version of MotoGP, a professional dancer and finalist of a top british TV show on Kinect Dance Central and the aforementioned champion table tennis player on Sports Champions Table Tennis on Move.
The Rapper was beaten by the Presenter
The TV Quiz King beat the Presenter easliy
The Motorcyclist beat the Presenter easily
The Dancer beat the Presenter very easily
The Table Tennis Champ was beaten by the Presenter very, very easily.
The reason the Quiz guy won is because an ability to store vast numbers of facts translates across genres, be it pub quiz, TV quiz or Buzz. The reason the racer won is because he has knowledge of the track they were virtually racing on, along with an idea of cornering speeds, etc. The reason the dancer won is because of his ability to maintain rhythm while completing a string of complex dance moves. And the reason the rapper lost is because he is used to rapping in his own style, whereas the presenter was happy to copy another.
So why did the TT Tennis champ lose so badly? And more importantly, does it matter?
Bear in mind that the Gadget Show have extensively previewed Move in past shows, as well as Sports Champions, so it's not as if they've gone in blind. Also bear in mind, they had very positive impressions of it. And maybe because of that, and maybe because they also bought into the PR speak about it being just like the real thing, they thought it would make a good challenge.
At no point did the program makers sit down and say to themselves, "Maybe this isn't a good challenge, as playing Table Tennis with Move is about as comprable to actual Table Tennis as wanking to porn is to actually having sex"
But they did go for it, and the more I think about it the more he is kinda right about the actual result being damning for Move, irrespective of what settings or whatever, as the ads on TV in the UK at the moment for Move are all about how it is just like the real thing. And, if memory serves me correctly, there was that exact Move advert on during the break. So yes, the result in the show was kinda damning for those watching who may have been looking at Move as a Xmas present or whatever.
Yes, you and I and Shitfty and most posters on this board (and boards like it) know that Move is like Masturbation compared to the real thing and to dismiss the marketing speak, the PR and the advertisments for the overhyped drivel that adverts usually are. But we are in the minority, us forum geeks. We are not the major audience that Sony are trying to convert into PS3 and/or Move owners. However, many of those with a passing interest in techie stuff like Move are most definately Gadget Show viewers, and the decision of the program makers to showcase Move against a sports professional is definately one that Sony won't want to promote in future.
I don't know why Move must be like masturbation or like the real thing exclusively. It can be both -- depends on difficulty settings, skill levels and play style. Some will take a longer time to warm up to it. Some may never like it.
For marketing to non-gamers and casuals, I think they have a long way to go. The initial buyers will probably be the core gamers and their friends/relatives.
For marketing to non-gamers and casuals, I think they have a long way to go. The initial buyers will probably be the core gamers and their friends/relatives.
Up until that point I had only seen videos of Child of Eden (Many of them, in fact) and listen to multiple podcasts (In This Thread, Giant Bomb, Weekend Confirmed, TRS, and a few others). Out of all the media that I followed during that time, I hadn't heard anyone mention being able to use a controller. Obviously now I know that not to be the case.
That still doesn't change the fact that many people expressed their experience as not only different, but also more difficult, as well as expressed calibration issues that occasionally took multiple tries to correct. I fail to see what is pathetic about an assumption based on a lot of information that I had at that point, vs saying "this doesn't look good for Move".
There are multiple reasons why each and every example you gave is flawed and not "solid", but the most important one is because none of them has a constant. Again, what you saw on that show is nothing more than a problem with that particular person, not the software or hardware.
That's a good point, and still people seem to ignore the fact that TT is surely one of the few sports where it's next to impossible to re-create in a game - maybe if it were in 3D he might had donw better, but none of the other examples could be affected by split-second timing - also with the dance game you have to wonder, if there's no way to 'level the playing field' like in TT then it will be boring as hell and alienate the targeted audience IMHO.
Either way, the best way to demonstrate Move is with games that include Augmented reality...oh, and I'd also add that you've basically confirmed that the presenters had played around with Move already (and enjoyed it) so had a big advantage.
Either way, the best way to demonstrate Move is with games that include Augmented reality...oh, and I'd also add that you've basically confirmed that the presenters had played around with Move already (and enjoyed it) so had a big advantage.
Perish the thought! Surely any opinion has to be the absolutely extreme interpretable!
To be fair, I wouldn't have classed the racing driver as having much of an advantage as it was an iPad game. It bore little relation to his real-life experience, so he had less advantage, although as you say he did have knowledge. If instead the racing challenge was in a GT5 demo pod, it wouldn't be wrong to expect a professional racing driver to have a significant advantage over someone who wasn't (unless they are a GT expert!). And if there was a flying race held in a flight simulator you'd think the real life pilot would have the advantage, whereas if it's a bought of Ace Combat the pilot's experience wouldn't count for much.
Hence the closer the video-game is to reality, the more advantageous real-life experience will be. I don't see that as a reckless assumption. Quite the contrary, to think real-life experience counts for absolutely nothing when transferring a real-life game to a video display seems the unrealistic assumption to me. If the dancing challenge didn't favour the guy with experience and talent in dancing, you'd have to question how authentic the dancing game is. And if you could massively beat Tom Jones singing a Tom Jones song in Singstar, you'd have to question the accuracy of Singstar and whether it really does differentiate good singing from bad.
Sure, but you have to communicate that effectively. If potential customers only see purposely unbalanced gameplay, you communicate only one side of the story. Like games demo'd in god mode, and people say, "that looked really dull." If they appreciate it was in god mode, that's not a problem, but if they just go by what they see, it's negative PR.
See, they are complaining about the games, not the controller. It's like saying DS3 is dull or unrealistic. Doesn't make sense.
I didn't watch the program so I can't comment. Defeating the expert player may not be a bad thing from the novice's perspective.
Billy Idol
Legend
You guys know that these are all games...right?
It is nothing more, nothing less...especially, games don't have anything to do with real life...especially, the so called "sim" games have nothing to do with real life - I am wondering at the moment what the point of the ongoing discussion is?!
If someone beats another person in a game - he is a better gamer, nothing more, nothing less!
It is nothing more, nothing less...especially, games don't have anything to do with real life...especially, the so called "sim" games have nothing to do with real life - I am wondering at the moment what the point of the ongoing discussion is?!
If someone beats another person in a game - he is a better gamer, nothing more, nothing less!
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