Playstation Move Games
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There is nothing quirky in real TT, you just need good reflex and hand-eye co-ordination to be good. A good understanding of physics of spin also help. The novice player could just be very talented. Maybe they just didn't give enough credit to the novice player for beating the champ, but discredit the game instead.
TT is not like Tennis, is not a popular sport outside China and some SE Asia countries. Maybe they just discovered a talent
There is nothing quirky in real TT, you just need good reflex and hand-eye co-ordination to be good. A good understanding of physics of spin also help. The novice player could just be very talented. Maybe they just didn't give enough credit to the novice player for beating the champ, but discredit the game instead.
TT is not like Tennis, is not a popular sport outside China and some SE Asia countries. Maybe they just discovered a talent
True, and another thing that strikes me as odd is that no one accounts for familiarity of the product. Does the champ understand that he has to MOVE to hit the ball? Does he realize that 3D space matters? etc.
Instead, folks just chose to make some baseless assumptions.
It's kinda intuitive to pick up and play. Do the players really need talent to win ? At times, I have seen my kid beat my wife also. I don't think he's a TT superstar.
The game is built for fun. There are 3-4 levels to develop your skills. Each human player can also choose his/her own difficulty level to play against each other. Some will "get it" better than others.
It's also about how you want to play the game (lotsa spinning and smashes, infinite ping pong, etc.). I certainly want my kid to be able to win from time to time.
The game is built for fun. There are 3-4 levels to develop your skills. Each human player can also choose his/her own difficulty level to play against each other. Some will "get it" better than others.
It's also about how you want to play the game (lotsa spinning and smashes, infinite ping pong, etc.). I certainly want my kid to be able to win from time to time.
I dunno, after owning the Move for a week I have to say I'm pretty disappointed in the games so far. I'm going to exclude table tennis because I find that to be some of the most fun I've had gaming in a long time. All my other experiences have left me scratching my head. Keep in mind my previous motion control gaming consisted of 15 minutes of Wii and it was playing the tennis game.
So far out of Sports Champions I've played Table Tennis, Beach Volleyball, Archery and Gladiator. I couldn't find any redeeming qualities out of the Beach Volleyball game. I played to the Silver level and the mechanics were not very fun for me. I just felt like I was going through lame motions for the sake of making motions. Archery was a simple shooting game that I feel like I've played before. The fact that I had to move my arm in a motion to go into my imaginary quiver was hardly immersive. Also played Gladiator up into the Silver level and struggled a lot with it not catching my actions. I don't know if I moved to fast for it while it was still in animation, but I found myself swinging my arm for more times than it would register.
I've only tried the demos for Kung Fu Rider, The Shoot and Tumble so far. Kung Fu Rider is not even a game and much like Beach Volleyball felt like I was going through tedious motions just for the sake of having a motion controller. The Shoot felt like Archery and every other shooting game I've played before. Tumble had some interesting motion mechanics but it is not a game I would play.
With all that said, I'd say the $99 bundle is worth it alone for how much fun I've had the past week playing Table Tennis. It still feels awfully gimmicky to me overall and I'm very skeptical on this accessory for my gaming tastes.
So far out of Sports Champions I've played Table Tennis, Beach Volleyball, Archery and Gladiator. I couldn't find any redeeming qualities out of the Beach Volleyball game. I played to the Silver level and the mechanics were not very fun for me. I just felt like I was going through lame motions for the sake of making motions. Archery was a simple shooting game that I feel like I've played before. The fact that I had to move my arm in a motion to go into my imaginary quiver was hardly immersive. Also played Gladiator up into the Silver level and struggled a lot with it not catching my actions. I don't know if I moved to fast for it while it was still in animation, but I found myself swinging my arm for more times than it would register.
I've only tried the demos for Kung Fu Rider, The Shoot and Tumble so far. Kung Fu Rider is not even a game and much like Beach Volleyball felt like I was going through tedious motions just for the sake of having a motion controller. The Shoot felt like Archery and every other shooting game I've played before. Tumble had some interesting motion mechanics but it is not a game I would play.
With all that said, I'd say the $99 bundle is worth it alone for how much fun I've had the past week playing Table Tennis. It still feels awfully gimmicky to me overall and I'm very skeptical on this accessory for my gaming tastes.
Should just relax and take your time. I think it is going to take a l-o-n-g *ss time for people to understand, improve and appreciate Move.
As diligent/curious as I am, I have not tried all the Move mechanics yet. Still training for pointer based FPS. I see myself improving but I am far from being as effective as using DS3. There are glimpse of hopes, but it's going to take practices. Then there's different shooters from Resident Evil 5, to The Shoot, to Time Crisis, to KillZone 3 and Socom 4.
I have only tried RUSE briefly, and more RTSes are coming. In particular, I am most interested in the one that blends RTS and other genra together (i.e., You can zoom down to individual soldiers to play).
Then there's action and RPG games like Sorcery, and perhaps even Star Wars Jedi games. Probably going to see variations in Gladiator style fighting here. Playstation Move Heroes will have a few new mechanics (like whipping).
Sports and Dance games is another big area (e.g., tennis, baseball, golf, basket ball, rodeo, fishing, …).
Plus other alternate games (Besides Tumble, also Echochrome II, Flight Control, Child of Eden, EyePet, Start the Party, Heavy Rain, …)
As diligent/curious as I am, I have not tried all the Move mechanics yet. Still training for pointer based FPS. I see myself improving but I am far from being as effective as using DS3. There are glimpse of hopes, but it's going to take practices. Then there's different shooters from Resident Evil 5, to The Shoot, to Time Crisis, to KillZone 3 and Socom 4.
I have only tried RUSE briefly, and more RTSes are coming. In particular, I am most interested in the one that blends RTS and other genra together (i.e., You can zoom down to individual soldiers to play).
Then there's action and RPG games like Sorcery, and perhaps even Star Wars Jedi games. Probably going to see variations in Gladiator style fighting here. Playstation Move Heroes will have a few new mechanics (like whipping).
Sports and Dance games is another big area (e.g., tennis, baseball, golf, basket ball, rodeo, fishing, …).
Plus other alternate games (Besides Tumble, also Echochrome II, Flight Control, Child of Eden, EyePet, Start the Party, Heavy Rain, …)
ShadowRunner
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I was thinking about a true racing sim, not "sim" (
I know for sure that most people who are good drivers in real life tend to be rubbish at gran turismo when they first play it, until they get used to it. Those that are good in feal life though will tend to be better at it than the bad real life drivers once both are used to it. The skills from real driving do transfer to videogame driving, but from what i have seen it does take time to settle in. Id expect TT to be similar, a TT champion will still need to get used to the game at first, but once they do they should be very good at it
Aye! are you on about!
In arcade machines (with the wheel etc) Ive seen people (old experienced drivers) smash into a wall go wrong way etc.
Yet 10 yr old kids (who have never been behind the wheel in their lives) perform much better.
Try it yourself, get your mum/dad/grandma whoever that doesnt play videogames.
Stick them behind the wheel of some simulator and watch the mayhem (sure they might make it around in one piece if they stick to 80km/hr) but they certainly wont win
lol, I just scanned some of the comments about the guy on gadetshow and how the game should be 'pick up and play'...
Firstly the game is 'pick up and play' (my non-gaming (in fact game-hating) wife is confirmation of that fact).
Secondly real life has one advantage that games don't (other than real 3D) and that is no lag! A professional TT player is playing a really fast game that needs lightningly quick reactions to the point that a small fraction of a second makes the world of difference. Gamers are more used to lag and find it easier to adjust.
It's also not fair to compare this to a racing game, it's totally different as it's easier to simulate 'real life' for driving as you're sitting behind a wheel making movements for (fairly) predictable events you have lot's of notice for (usually) rather than having to interact with fast moving objects at your hands. I'm fairly confident that if he had been given the neccassary 'adjustment' time he'd be really good at it.
Firstly the game is 'pick up and play' (my non-gaming (in fact game-hating) wife is confirmation of that fact).
Secondly real life has one advantage that games don't (other than real 3D) and that is no lag! A professional TT player is playing a really fast game that needs lightningly quick reactions to the point that a small fraction of a second makes the world of difference. Gamers are more used to lag and find it easier to adjust.
It's also not fair to compare this to a racing game, it's totally different as it's easier to simulate 'real life' for driving as you're sitting behind a wheel making movements for (fairly) predictable events you have lot's of notice for (usually) rather than having to interact with fast moving objects at your hands. I'm fairly confident that if he had been given the neccassary 'adjustment' time he'd be really good at it.
So you asked the 10 year olds if they ever played with wheel?
Anyway someone with already experience to the wheel and gearbox will be able to perform better than someone with no experience at all. Settling in due to arcade factor might take a bit of time in some cases but their perfomance is still superior to a fresh newbie that never touched a wheel unless they are drunk. Well atleast when I've seen familiars drive and friends with or without experience. Also a real world driver tends to be lighter on the gas and more careful.
Anyway that was all.
In the Gadget Show, I think both players are relatively new to Move. I don't think the novice player is unfamiliar with Table Tennis. Both of them will need to adjust to Move. Once they settle down, they will both improve. There is no guarantee the expert player will adapt faster than the novice player though. In my family, I adjusted the fastest; my son second and my wife last.
Or it just means that:
a) the bronze level assists actually work! (which is true - even with service, it is hard to serve into the net even on purpose, but on Gold you definitely can)
b) the hosts of the show are morons for not testing this with at least gold level difficulty as well (I haven't seen it, but I assume yes?)
c) the real table tennis player couldn't adjust to the 2D of it all (did they even give him time to get used to this? They should have allowed him to play single player and ask him to replicate various types of spins, high and low hits etc.)
As for driving wheels, if I don't tell people to stick to 80km/h they mess up, because the same kind of lack of 3D (and g-forces). And it will take them quite a bit of time before they can actually race - judging braking points, max corner speeds, feeling the piont of tire slippage, all these things take time to learn in a game environment even if you're a good racer.
Even shows like Top Gear when doing a comparison between Gran Turismo and real life, tend to forget to put all settings (tires, steering assist, traction control, etc.) to maximum realism in the game. These days I'm surprised when a comparison is done right.
Can I just ask people to back up here, tha_con especially who's taken his usual abrasive, defensive position wherein every game is apparently perfect and if any player has trouble playing a game it's clearly the player's fault and nothing to do with design choices, and actually review what I said.
So...
Which all points to Move TT in this instance behaving not so much like a virtual TT game, but like a video game. If that represents the entirety of Move's potential (which is doesn't, but you can't expect a typical Gadget Show viewer to know that), then it means anyone thinking that getting a Move will be good for their golf game allowing practice in the home, or wanting a tennis game to keep their arm in out of season, or similarly looking to Move for matters of hand-eye coordination and dextrous control, will possibly be having a second thought. In the same way anyone thinking getting GT to learn to be a better racing driver would have considered after seeing Top Gear's comparisons that it isn't realistic and is only of worth as a video game.
It would have been a better advertisement of Move's potential (though the programme wasn't an advertisement, but light entertainment) if the guy with 14 years domination managed to dominate in the game too, as it would have shown that the Move controller is capable of realistic control beyond Wii-style videogaming where the movements is all too often just an input mechanic rather than working on a level of direct motion control. Otherwise, iof we accept these are just video games, motion gaming isn't much of a progression from video-games to simulations, which will be a disappointment given the potential within the tech.
I didn't say Move was crap or doesn't work yada yada. This was a single event taken in isolation, as considered by Gadget Show viewers seeing this thing played after seeing a few adverts about Move and wondering what it's all about.
So...
Yes, I mentioned in my OP on this matter.
It wasn't a review, but a set of challenges throughout the programme. The Gadget Show already previewed Move very enthusiastically.
I'd hope he had some time to familiarise himself with the game and didn't go in completely cold, which would be awkward, but that's quite possible, and could well explain it. Basically he hadn't acclimatised to the non-native positioning or relating his motions to the screen.
Which all points to Move TT in this instance behaving not so much like a virtual TT game, but like a video game. If that represents the entirety of Move's potential (which is doesn't, but you can't expect a typical Gadget Show viewer to know that), then it means anyone thinking that getting a Move will be good for their golf game allowing practice in the home, or wanting a tennis game to keep their arm in out of season, or similarly looking to Move for matters of hand-eye coordination and dextrous control, will possibly be having a second thought. In the same way anyone thinking getting GT to learn to be a better racing driver would have considered after seeing Top Gear's comparisons that it isn't realistic and is only of worth as a video game.
It would have been a better advertisement of Move's potential (though the programme wasn't an advertisement, but light entertainment) if the guy with 14 years domination managed to dominate in the game too, as it would have shown that the Move controller is capable of realistic control beyond Wii-style videogaming where the movements is all too often just an input mechanic rather than working on a level of direct motion control. Otherwise, iof we accept these are just video games, motion gaming isn't much of a progression from video-games to simulations, which will be a disappointment given the potential within the tech.
Are you playing with one or two motion controllers ?
upnorthsox
Veteran
I guess it depends on what you bold in your quote:
I don't see how anyone could think you're not talking about Move there.
ShadowRunner
Veteran
The thing is i would expect the guy with 14 years experience would have dominated had he had chance to get used to it. The skills may be transferable, maybe just not instantly. TT on Move not being exactly the same as real life does not show it cannot also be 'capable of realistic control beyond Wii-style videogaming'. It is clear to just about anyone who has played it that it is a big step up from anything we have seen before, the fact it does not imitate real life exactly isnt news, if anyone expected that to begin with they would have to be pretty crazy.
Where have I said I'm not talking about Move? This single event taken in isolation is 'damning' of Move, in that it suggested a waggle-level interface, where real-life skills count for little, similar to Wii-Tennis
Taking the three discrete POVs mentioned:
1) I think Move is crap
2) I think Move doesn't work
3) This example shows Move very badly
...which was the one I was talking from in my Gadget Show post?
I wouldn't call it crazy given the advertising. I personally was surprised that dual-Move archery is just point and shoot with the front hand, and not a better simulation of archery with aiming defined by the vector between rear and front Moves. I would accept those expectations were assumed by me (or implied by the ads, depending on how one wants to look at it) rather than explicitly described, but they aren't crazy expectations when it seems a logical implementation given how the game is portrayed.
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