Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

wco81 said:
Well that would be a departure from all previous console designs then. Because they usually count on big cost reductions over the life of the console generation, along with price cuts to sustain sales.
Click to expand...
It's not about cost cutting on the design, it's about the global economic situation completing offsetting those cost savings before they can be passed on to consumers.

I'm a bit baffled here. I mean, I presume you are aware about the rising cost of literally everything, everywhere? What makes you think that Sony, unique of all companies, can buck that trend? Nobody else, just Sony? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
DSoup said:
It's not about cost cutting on the design, it's about the global economic situation completing offsetting those cost savings before they can be passed on to consumers.

I'm a bit baffled here. I mean, I presume you are aware about the rising cost of literally everything, everywhere? What makes you think that Sony, unique of all companies, can buck that trend? Nobody else, just Sony? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...

You don't know how large projects supply chains are secured.

They don't go out and pay prevailing market prices for components.

They cut deals for x units of components, where x is a large number in the millions. The contracts may allow for a range of prices but they don't put themselves at the mercy of market prices say 3 years after launch, any more than airliners just go out and buy fuel at market prices when they hedge fuel prices way in advance.

They would have signed these contracts years ago, before this generation launched.


Also better yields and die shrinks should yield cost reductions as well.
 
Yes, but all of the deals aren't as good as they used to be. Sony might pay 10% less for something because of their size, but now it's 10% less of a 15% larger number. LOL

The agreements from 2019 for PS5 probably don't extend to 2024 PS5 Slims.

The reality is that Sony isn't screwing consumers. Costs are rising. It's a miracle that PS5 aren't $700 at retail by now given what's going on in the rest of the world market. The slim is just letting them tread water.
 
Johnny Awesome said:
Yes, but all of the deals aren't as good as they used to be. Sony might pay 10% less for something because of their size, but now it's 10% less of a 15% larger number. LOL

The agreements from 2019 for PS5 probably don't extend to 2024 PS5 Slims.
Click to expand...
Do you understand that when they sign contracts in 2019, it's to supply a certain number of components at a certain price or range of prices for x number of years?

Do you further understand that a lot of these components wouldn't be manufactured in volume or at all 3 or 4 years later if not for those contracts?

Console components aren't necessarily bespoke but they're not always the exact same ones you can order for yourself from Newegg or Alibaba or whatever.
 
wco81 said:
Do you understand that when they sign contracts in 2019, it's to supply a certain number of components at a certain price or range of prices for x number of years?

Do you further understand that a lot of these components wouldn't be manufactured in volume or at all 3 or 4 years later if not for those contracts?

Console components aren't necessarily bespoke but they're not always the exact same ones you can order for yourself from Newegg or Alibaba or whatever.
Click to expand...

You likely then also understand that when suppliers sign contracts for X number of years that also includes situations where the price can increase due to conditions out of their control. That's pretty standard in the industry. So, for a company supplying say anything made using copper, there will be a point where if the price of copper goes above Y number for Z amount of time, then the contracted price will go up commensurate with the increase in the cost of copper.

No supplier wants to go out of business because they signed a contract that doesn't take commodity prices into account or say an increase in global shipping fees or anything else that is completely out of their control. Likewise no-one dependent on those suppliers want those suppliers to go out of business because their contract unreasonably restricts the ability of the supplier to remain in business.

Now negotiations will have the buyer attempt to keep the increase as low as possible while the supplier will try to get it as high as they can. The final contract will be one where both feel it is reasonable.

Regards,
SB
 
wco81 said:
Well that would be a departure from all previous console designs then.
Click to expand...
Notably, silicon reduction isn't anything like as generous in gains any more. That had massive spiralling cost reductions - smaller, cooler silicon meant less power draw, cheaper PSU, cheaper cooling, etc. Those aren't happening now. Heck, smaller nodes are now costing more money than the older lithography they are replacing.
wco81 said:
Because they usually count on big cost reductions over the life of the console generation, along with price cuts to sustain sales.
Click to expand...
But that's not happening any more. PS4 price drops stopped at one $50/€50 drop, no?

vgsales.fandom.com

Price cuts

See also: Launch price Price cuts in video game system often result in better sales, but may be an indication of slowing demand or an aging system. It may also mean more efficient manufacturing processes. Most price cuts vary from $20 to $50, though $100 reductions have occurred. When the...
vgsales.fandom.com vgsales.fandom.com

Ongoing monetisation no longer relies on growing the userbase through cheaper consoles, but through network service subs. These companies make a lot more money now.
 
wco81 said:
You don't know how large projects supply chains are secured.
Click to expand...
I actually do, I've been involved in quite a few aerospace and defence projects, albeit some time ago but nothing has changed and the challenges are no different now than they were then.

wco81 said:
They cut deals for x units of components, where x is a large number in the millions. The contracts may allow for a range of prices but they don't put themselves at the mercy of market prices say 3 years after launch, any more than airliners just go out and buy fuel at market prices when they hedge fuel prices way in advance.
Click to expand...
This is exactly how it works but the length and window of pricing will depend on the economic outlook at the time a contract is being negotiated. The thought process is much like when you're considering what type of mortgage to go for. A fixed rate mortgage protects you from interest rate increases but leaves you vulnerable to interest rate drops that won't benefit you.

Sony would have been signing contracts in 2019 for 2020 production and launch, and those contracts typically would not last longer than three years, so increasing pricing hitting this year is what you would expect.
 
orangpelupa said:
Even Nintendo looks more consumer friendly nowadays...
Click to expand...
I wouldent go that far. Sony still always has infinitely better deals and sales on software across their entire library much more frequently than Nintendo. Which adds up for me to a lot more saved overall. If nintendo wants to be consumer friendly their games have to actually go down in price at some point.
 
orangpelupa said:
So fan speed is the same too?
Click to expand...
That's a good question. Austin measured the fan in his video and it turns out it got smaller as well. Instead of ~120 x 50 mm it's now ~115 x 40 mm. If the diameter of the enclosure is smaller as well it means you won't be able to shop for a better fan if you're unhappy with what you've got with the fan lottery. Unless there's no fan lottery, but seeing that at least one of those teardowns identified the fan as the Foxconn one, which is the fourth type (joining the Nidecs, Deltas, and NMBs) introduced with the 12XX revision, I'd guess they're still sourcing fans from different contractors.

They say the differences between fans are smaller now since e.g. Nidec v3 is less annoying than v1. I have compared the Foxconn fan with my own NMB and could still hear the difference, e.g. the latter was inaudible in the dashboard, unlike the former, so I'd pick NMB any day. Had I had the Foxconn from the start I might have not bothered exchanging it, though, as it was not as bad as e.g. early Nidec fan UFO sounds. We need someone to do a thorough analysis of all the new fans, similar to what this guy did with all the old fans:

 
Shifty Geezer said:

Using planar drivers from acquired company Audeze:
www.businesswire.com

Sony Interactive Entertainment to Acquire Audeze, a Leader in Audio Technology and Developer of Award-winning Headphones for Gaming

Sony Interactive Entertainment to Acquire Audeze, a Leader in Audio Technology and Developer of Award-winning Headphones for Gaming
www.businesswire.com

Audeze review very well so this might be a great headset, and price, though higher-end for gaming headsets, isn't insane.
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1724151598765531413
 
www.reuters.com

Sony facing $7.9 bln mass lawsuit over PlayStation Store prices

Sony must face a mass lawsuit worth up to 6.3 billion pounds ($7.9 billion) over claims the PlayStation maker abused its dominant position leading to unfair prices for customers, a London tribunal ruled on Tuesday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Potentially ouch. Sony requiring add-ons for games on PS5 must be bought in the PlayStation store is part of this.

Depending on how this goes, could affect other console makers as well as Apple and Google.

Regards,
SB
 
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