Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[see colon]

I don't think PS5 has Atmos. And unfortunately, very few review really talk about the audio differences in games. I wonder if it sounds different.

 

[BRiT]

Audio simply just has to be present, for nearly everyone, unfortunately. It's a genuine shame because with just decent mixing, not even talking HRTFs here, the audio can be such a great and wonderful aspect even with simple headphones.

 

[novcze]

What does that have to do with my question about any game having great audio due to 3d audio?
Would not the TV or the link to the TV be limiting component in this setup?

Sorry, I didn't deleted your previous question from the quote. I reacted in general about Cerny raving about 3D audio and then locking out people from enjoying it through better equipment, not to mention they omitted optical out on the PS5.

And to your question, HDMI is not a limiting factor when 3D audio for headphones is only 2ch audio just like stereo and TV can output it via optical out or directly to headphones.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

TL;DR version: they made some stuff, shoved it in a weird-shaped case then had some beers.

That sounds about right, although Japanese workers (especially businessmen and engineers) also really like whiskey. So they probably threw down a few shots (well more likely whiskey on ice) as well.

Regards,
SB

 

[goonergaz]

Sorry, I didn't deleted your previous question from the quote. I reacted in general about Cerny raving about 3D audio and then locking out people from enjoying it through better equipment, not to mention they omitted optical out on the PS5.

And to your question, HDMI is not a limiting factor when 3D audio for headphones is only 2ch audio just like stereo and TV can output it via optical out or directly to headphones.

They are not locking it out, they said it will come it’s just not ready yet. Having said that I thought it was released for TV (or is it due soon?)

 

[novcze]

They are not locking it out, they said it will come it’s just not ready yet. Having said that I thought it was released for TV (or is it due soon?)

... you probably don't understand

I don't want 3D audio for TV speakers, I want 3D audio for headphones.
I can't connect nice DAC+headphone amp directly to optical out on the TV, because there is no way how to set PS5 to output 3D audio for headphones via HDMI.


edit:

there, they even have settings for HDMI Device Type, if they can differentiate TV speakers, soundbar and AV amplifier, why not add headphones? Why Sony?

 

[goonergaz]

I'm confused, if the audio signal the TV receives is 3D why is it not outputting via optical to 3D? 3D is nothing special with headphones, it's just that due to TV speakers it's hard to recreate...I would have thought if the TV is receiving 3D audio then that's what will go to the optical out?

Edit - and I guess there's no HDMI headphones option because they don't exist!?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'm confused, if the audio signal the TV receives is 3D why is it not outputting via optical to 3D? 3D is nothing special with headphones, it's just that due to TV speakers it's hard to recreate...I would have thought if the TV is receiving 3D audio then that's what will go to the optical out?

Edit - and I guess there's no HDMI headphones option because they don't exist!?

He wants the HRTF headphone audio stream which currently is only output to directly connected headphones. 3D audio passed through to the TV is not the same as the HRTF headphone audio.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The audio isn't 3D audio when targeting headphones but basic stereo. You need the raw stereo output to TV to pass through to the plain stereo headphones but there's no option to just pipe headphone audio through the HDMI.

 

[Globalisateur]

I don't have PS5 yet, but last time I checked, there is no 3D audio for headphones connected to a TV or monitor, because Sony think that their consumers are idiots. They allow 3D for headphones only for wireless, usb or via dualsense connection.

Isn't stereo audio for TV headphones the exact audio than the TV speakers?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Isn't stereo audio for TV headphones the exact audio than the TV speakers?

No, playing back HRTF'd stereo audio through stereo speakers isn't the same as through headphones. I know it does on PC. If you enable Atmos or Windows Sonic on stereo speakers and play back HRTF'd audio it sounds a bit ... odd and different from hearing it through headphones.

Regards,
SB

 

[BRiT]

They should be able to deliver that same 3d Audio for Headphones signal they deliver through the controllers, HRTF included and all, even over HDMI. As Silent_Buddha noted, the difference would be the option to include or exclude the HRTFs.

I imagine they'd need a simple audio setup screen similar to the following, where you select headset audio format and then select the delivery mechanism. PlayStation options would be Stereo format or 3D Audio format. Leave the HDMI unchecked if using controller headset connection.



This was how Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTS Unbound for Headphones, Windows Sonic for headphones, and Stereo audio was available to be setup, either direct or through hdmi (or optical connections on last-gen console).

 

[novcze]

The audio isn't 3D audio when targeting headphones but basic stereo.

Sony is using "3D audio" for their version of HRTF'd stereo, so I'm using their terminology.

 

[JPT]

They should be able to deliver that same 3d Audio for Headphones signal they deliver through the controllers, HRTF included and all, even over HDMI. As Silent_Buddha noted, the difference would be the option to include or exclude the HRTFs.

I imagine they'd need a simple audio setup screen similar to the following, where you select headset audio format and then select the delivery mechanism. PlayStation options would be Stereo format or 3D Audio format. Leave the HDMI unchecked if using controller headset connection.

View attachment 6030

This was how Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTS Unbound for Headphones, Windows Sonic for headphones, and Stereo audio was available to be setup, either direct or through hdmi (or optical connections on last-gen console).

Two questions for me

1. Is that to complex for most console users? I have no clue to what I am supposed to set my PS5 audio setup to, I got an LG B9 TV and Sonos Arc (with sub and 2 Ones in the livingroom), with the PS5 connected to the TV and the TV to the ARC. I have this stuff because it was easy to just setup. And I am usually ok with tech stuff, but all this audio is zzzz and this was before the PS5.

2. How many users are like nocze, aka is it worth the effort for Sony to do it?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

2. How many users are like nocze, aka is it worth the effort for Sony to do it?

Probably not a lot, but it's also a pretty trivial change. I'd be incredibly surprised if it requires a significant amount of code to accomplish if the capability doesn't already exist within the OS to designate which outputs a given audio stream is allowed to use. The only significant change then would just be within the UI to allow the user to choose that output for an HRTF audio stream.

Regards,
SB

 

[JPT]

Probably not a lot, but it's also a pretty trivial change. I'd be incredibly surprised if it requires a significant amount of code to accomplish if the capability doesn't already exist within the OS to designate which outputs a given audio stream is allowed to use. The only significant change then would just be within the UI to allow the user to choose that output for an HRTF audio stream.

Regards,
SB

Code change is one aspect, QA is another and then support when people get confused. Although I do not belive there is any meaningful support available for consoles other than help to reset your accounts etc.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Code change is one aspect, QA is another and then support when people get confused. Although I do not belive there is any meaningful support available for consoles other than help to reset your accounts etc.

I haven't heard of anyone being confused by it on the MS side of things, so unless PS users are more easily confused I doubt confusion would be much of an issue.

For MS, you can enable HRTF audio streams on any output on PC, but all relevant stereo HRTF streams are clearly labled as: [type of HRTF stream] for Headphones (for example, Dolby Atmos for Headphones). So if you wanted to enable it for headphones connected to a TV which is connected to an audio receiver which is connected to your PC, you're free to do so.

Regards,
SB

 

[JPT]

I haven't heard of anyone being confused by it on the MS side of things, so unless PS users are more easily confused I doubt confusion would be much of an issue.

For MS, you can enable HRTF audio streams on any output on PC

You might be right , then again people that are willing to tinker with their PC usually have a higer tolerance for such things.
But sure its most likely that its not worth the effort Sony, just yet. Compared to the other stuff they said they planned to do, 3D audio sound systems etc.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Probably not a lot, but it's also a pretty trivial change. I'd be incredibly surprised if it requires a significant amount of code to accomplish if the capability doesn't already exist within the OS to designate which outputs a given audio stream is allowed to use. The only significant change then would just be within the UI to allow the user to choose that output for an HRTF audio stream.

I may have lost the thread of the conversation, but the goal of HTRF is ensure that the way the ear receives sound is as close as possible to the original source. The way people perceive sound is wildy dependant on the environment it's bouncing around in. Outside of closed-cup headphones, which provide a fairly uniform environment that not only reduces ambient noise but provides a predictable space in which sound can bounce, how else do you calculate and accommodate for the size, shape and clutter of the room in which 3D sounds in a room is intended to sound?

Supporting 3D audio in a known environment is much easier than a very dynamic environment.

 

[BRiT]

Yeah, sounds like you lost the thread of conversation. It would still be the exact same HRTF audio, just delivered over HDMI to a device in the middle, such as an AVR, which then delivers it to Headphones.