Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]
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Cerny said Sony would validate what drives were sufficiently fast to be compatible. Their spec speed needs to be higher than the base rate given for the PS5's SSD because the on-die controller needs to convert the more complex Sony prioritization scheme into the 2-level method of a standard drive, costing some performance.
How the expansion drive works internally may be considered irrelevant as long as it is fast enough, and it may be possible that some of the internal features like encryption or other tweaks could be left off since the PS5 is applying its own anyway.
It's possible that if the PS5 can run games from the M.2 that Sony's SSD is not significantly lower-latency compared to standard drives.
It's possible they would inform the vendors that fail the test and tell them exactly what metric needs to be changed. It could be a simple change in the controller code (they're just a bunch of ARM cores running a firmware anyway). Worst case they add a little jumper or host detection for "ps5 mode".
Vendors tune their firmware for benchmarks, and that means very high queue size which could mess up the priority queues (managed by sony upstream and combined?), and also sometimes delay the wear leveling or write commit which cause hiccups when that buffer gets full. Some SSD benchmark beautifully unless you leave then writing randomly for long enough and it exposes massive flaws in the firmware.
Having to focus mostly on read performance prevents a lot headaches. The writes priority queues would be just downloads and save games, maybe Game Recording. There's the idea that the reason to have that many priority queues is for the OS, and save games, and downloads, and apps, which means the nvme drive would just have to handle a fraction of those, hence two would be enough. Only the internal drive needs 6.
12 channels are not common, but 8 would be fine at faster speed. Sony seems to be using relatively slow nand compared to what's available. Could be a cost reduction, more channels at lower speed grades.
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They said there would be a validation process for commercially available drives that pass, just for the M.2 nvme expansion slot, not for USB drives. Cerny said pcie4.0 drive are capable of up to 7GB/s, but also said the custom controller supports 6 priority queues, and a normal ssd supports only two. It remains to be see if the testing only involved having a higher tham 5.5GB/s to compensate, or something else.
Edit: as I just added above, I think the reason to have that many priority queues is for the OS, and save games, and downloads, and apps, which means the nvme drive would just have to handle a fraction of those, hence two would be enough. Only the internal drive needs 6.
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D
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I'm hoping this validation is nothing formal, nothing more than a stress test of any drive you attach before Sony will allow you to store data on it.
Yeah, this more weight on the Sony controller. If the controller asks for a few gigs a data and that request is passed to the external SSD then 4ms later a high priority requirement of 500mb of data, how do you relate that to the NAND controller? I wonder what the mapping will be, presumably PS5 Priority level 1 = SSD Priority level 1, PS5 Priority levels 2-6 = SSD Priority level 2. Or maybe 1-2 = 1 and 3-6 = 2.
this really doing my head in, on my phone I can’t see the 2nd video, says I need to log into g suite which I do but it still doesn’t work. Anyone able to provide a standard YouTube link or advise how I can watch any of the videos that people keep posting!!
Have you tried a cellular data connection if you were using Wi-Fi on your phone to look at the YouTube link?
Maybe try in an incognito mode?
lol so were you impressed?wow, switching WiFi off worked - thanks!
I’m unsure why having WiFi on meant that YouTube insists on me signing onto a gmail account?
I dunno either I just googled and grabbed on to the first thing that folks claimed fixed the problem. If you do have g-suite it is probably a bug or something as Google seems to under-serve their paying customers with that service
Something about VPNs or some other restriction may be at play with a wifi connection vs the cell data one.
I dunno, but were you impressed by the video is what I'm asking?
oh right lol
Yeah, well...it’s all interesting to hear what’s possible, I found the ‘virtual RAM’ bit mostly interesting, along with the potential to free up RAM (maybe I’m mixing videos, I also watched the NXgamer one). I really want Sony to show more of the SSD advantages...
Yeah the virtual memory thing is making the rounds.
This was from before the videos and gave a reasonable approximation about why there is some value there in terms of memory management.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2112883/
If this works out for Sony then the PS5 Pro could be a knockout with the PS5 being jabs and a big wind up.
Hmm, maybe there will be some certification logo that manufacturers can acquire and display on packaging to indicate that it met Sony's validation.
Of course if it's like "Made for iPhone" certified peripherals, that mean much more pricey stuff. Or I think there are some HDMI 2.1 cables which have been certified for the highest bandwidth possible on the standard and those carry hefty price premiums.
Or we just have to wait for reviews from gaming media and users to see which brands and models pass muster.
Mark Cerny also said the SSD drives must be within some physical measures to fit inside, some have cooling fins and so on.
I said on a couple of the other forums, Sony would have done well to offer both a first and third party solution.
I understand a lot of people have an aversion to proprietary solutions due to overpricing and arbitrary proprietary interfaces in the past (Vita, I'm looking at you) but at least it would guarantee a solution on day one, and for those less technically versed it would keep it really simple: they can simply walk into a game store or go on the gaming section of a website and buy a "ps5 drive". At the risk of sounding patronising, never underestimate the ability for the average consumer to mess something up.
And for those of us who want a third party option we can use a certified drive (preferably they'll curate a list and have a PS5 certified logo on the packaging). Perhaps rather than having multiple bays or naked drives, they could provide a little enclosure with the PS5 that's effectively identical to the first party option. It could include some basic thermal dissipation and allow for a more durable plug & play means of connection.
Whichever way you look at it, MS' approach is simple, elegant and likely much more durable. It's great for Sony to allow a third party option, but having proprietary solution as a baseline removes a lot of variables that could put a spanner in the works.
Sony are going to need overhead, the ability to arbitrate parts of the pipeline, depending on whether or not they support different form factors they may either limit potential drives or have to engineer a solution to fit all. If a drive needs some means of cooling they may have to run airflow through the drive bay or have some adjustable means of making thermal contact with the chips. And as alluded to above, drives may not be available at launch or may be thin on the ground if they can't bring all this together in time and verify enough drives.
So yeah, to summarise I think the best solution would be a single cartridge interface, a first party cartridge with an appropriately specced drive in and with every console, provide a cartridge enclosure that takes any certified third party drive, preferably of various sizes.
Even as an out and out PlayStationer who has little interest in Xbox, this is one thing that always gets me with Sony. They rely a little too much on third parties for peripheral hardware/software functionality, I appreciate that they may want to maintain good third party relations and not step on their toes, but providing standards and quality to your customers is more important.
One prime example is controllers. The Official Elite controllers for Xbox are wonderful and Sony would do great to offer such a premium option. But they relegate such things to third parties; and frankly, the quality is just not there.
I understand a lot of people have an aversion to proprietary solutions due to overpricing and arbitrary proprietary interfaces in the past (Vita, I'm looking at you) but at least it would guarantee a solution on day one, and for those less technically versed it would keep it really simple: they can simply walk into a game store or go on the gaming section of a website and buy a "ps5 drive". At the risk of sounding patronising, never underestimate the ability for the average consumer to mess something up.
And for those of us who want a third party option we can use a certified drive (preferably they'll curate a list and have a PS5 certified logo on the packaging). Perhaps rather than having multiple bays or naked drives, they could provide a little enclosure with the PS5 that's effectively identical to the first party option. It could include some basic thermal dissipation and allow for a more durable plug & play means of connection.
Whichever way you look at it, MS' approach is simple, elegant and likely much more durable. It's great for Sony to allow a third party option, but having proprietary solution as a baseline removes a lot of variables that could put a spanner in the works.
Sony are going to need overhead, the ability to arbitrate parts of the pipeline, depending on whether or not they support different form factors they may either limit potential drives or have to engineer a solution to fit all. If a drive needs some means of cooling they may have to run airflow through the drive bay or have some adjustable means of making thermal contact with the chips. And as alluded to above, drives may not be available at launch or may be thin on the ground if they can't bring all this together in time and verify enough drives.
So yeah, to summarise I think the best solution would be a single cartridge interface, a first party cartridge with an appropriately specced drive in and with every console, provide a cartridge enclosure that takes any certified third party drive, preferably of various sizes.
Even as an out and out PlayStationer who has little interest in Xbox, this is one thing that always gets me with Sony. They rely a little too much on third parties for peripheral hardware/software functionality, I appreciate that they may want to maintain good third party relations and not step on their toes, but providing standards and quality to your customers is more important.
One prime example is controllers. The Official Elite controllers for Xbox are wonderful and Sony would do great to offer such a premium option. But they relegate such things to third parties; and frankly, the quality is just not there.
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Personally, I wouldn't be buying extension on day 1. I would try to cope with the internal ssd for as long as possible and hope that nvme ssd's come down in price over time. Most likely I wouldn't fill the internal drive until 2-3-4years into the generation. Most games I never play again after finishing :/ So many games, so little time.
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