Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[iroboto]

It must take considerable engineering effort for Sony to increase the speed the PS5 fan spins at.

At the very least, it doesn't look to be a simple variable change if they have to release all new firmware for it several months after release. I suspect there are additional requirements they are trying to meet as well, like noise etc, finding different ways to ramp up and down to keep noise volumes somewhat as they are today.

 

[Vega86]

Feels like the twitter posts were made for me with me just asking the apu, ssd, kraken stuff -just day or two apart. Too bad I can't understand most of the twitter posts.

 

[dskneo]

Its another variable to add to the APU boost algorithm that controls the fan. Its not a simple toggle.

 

[mpg1]

[PS5 owner yelling as jet engine noises ramp up]: "THIS THING NOW HOLDS 2 TERABYTES"

I kid....

 

[eastmen]

I remember commenting that it looked like there wasn't a way for air flow to make it into that slot. I also remember the debate about nand chips wanting to be really hot and additional cooling could damage them.

 

[mpg1]

Could you not just keep the cover for the SSD slot off? Or is it needed for dust...

 

[BRiT]

Wasn't there something mentioned about the cover around the time of the eventual PS5 Teardown?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I remember commenting that it looked like there wasn't a way for air flow to make it into that slot. I also remember the debate about nand chips wanting to be really hot and additional cooling could damage them.

This is because most NAND is still made on old processes and there has not been a compelling reason to really change this because size and power aren't issues impacting these components. There is a gradual swing for NAND on smaller more energy efficient processes, which will mean more NAND in the market from wafers so capacity (at the expensive of cost) will increase but the heat will subside.

One thing Sony have demonstrated being good at is making technical bets on the silicon landscape over the coming years.

 

[eastmen]

Could you not just keep the cover for the SSD slot off? Or is it needed for dust...

the way it looks , there wouldn't be much space between the plastic of the case and then the side panels. So even if you took off the ssd slot cover there might not be enough room to change anything.

Perhaps people will get creative and sell side panels with a hole avalible there to draw more air in or really tall heatsinks that come out of the shell.

Who knows , love seeing mods for stuff tho

 

[DieH@rd]

They need to allow cold storage of PS5 games on USB drives. That would ease the storage problems for many users.

 

[Rootax]

I've a very décent internet connexion, my ps4 games are on an external ssd, and I only play like 1-2 games at the same time, so I won't need the m2 extension, but the overheating concern seems weird to me, like they didn't realize it before ?
I believed that the m2 stuff was not enabled yet because their is no certified ssd yet (top speed is nice but I guess the minimum speed in worst case scenario is hard to reach?)

 

[DieH@rd]

Overheating concern is unverified. IMO, drive will mostly be used for reading, and even a bit of air going over the drive will do the job [and the console already has SSD bay airflow sorted].

 

[function]

I suppose the act of constructing representative stress tests, gathering data, and introducing extra conditions for controlling fan speed takes a while.

For example, every model of drive that they whitelist will behave differently, throttle differently under different conditions, and require different fan profiles to be applied to avoid throttling while simultaneously minimising fan noise.

It's probably not quite as simple as it appears to those of us that are used to just slapping a drive in a PC and then living with however it performs.

On a related note, it could be that something simple like copying a game from PS5 SSD -> internal expansion drive could cause the greatest thermal load. 100+ GB at 5.5 GB/s could end up getting pretty toasty.

 

[manux]

It's same as any other ps5 rumor. First it of abysmal yields due to higher clock speed, then the fireball rumors and now this. Could be true, I'll wait and see what materializes in the end. It would be odd if sony didn't account for something like 10W max for ssd and plan accordingly. It cannot be surprise what kind of wattage ssd's output. Especially when sony designed custom ssd and should be very familiar with SSDs.

 

[BRiT]

But their internal NVME Flash chips have solid contact with the heat shielding where as the expandable NVME does not appear to have any. You can see the contact points align with the flash chips, at least on the iFixit tear down.

 

[manux]

But their internal NVME Flash chips have solid contact with the heat shielding where as the expandable NVME does not appear to have any. You can see the contact points align with the flash chips, at least on the iFixit tear down.

I'm just saying it would be pretty surprising if engineers added slot for ssd and forgot ssd produces heat. It's not any kind of surprise what kind of heat pcie4 nvme ssd's produce.

 

[function]

It's same as any other ps5 rumor. First it of abysmal yields due to higher clock speed, then the fireball rumors and now this. Could be true, I'll wait and see what materializes in the end. It would be odd if sony didn't account for something like 10W max for ssd and plan accordingly. It cannot be surprise what kind of wattage ssd's output. Especially when sony designed custom ssd and should be very familiar with SSDs.

I guess it's a little different trying to guess ~2 years ahead of time what kind of thermal load other manufacturers solutions will have, and what kind of air flow is needed over the heatsinks they may or may not have, with heatsink fins perhaps orientated one way or another.

If there's any truth to this story, then I'm sure Sony will crack the problem. Even if it took a custom 3rd party device (which I don't think it will). PS5 is probably going to go to 100 million (or more) devices, so where there's the brains and the money there's almost always a solution.

I wouldn't be worried about this if I were a PS5 owner.

 

[manux]

I guess it's a little different trying to guess ~2 years ahead of time what kind of thermal load other manufacturers solutions will have, and what kind of air flow is needed over the heatsinks they may or may not have, with heatsink fins perhaps orientated one way or another.

If there's any truth to this story, then I'm sure Sony will crack the problem. Even if it took a custom 3rd party device (which I don't think it will). PS5 is probably going to go to 100 million (or more) devices, so where there's the brains and the money there's almost always a solution.

I wouldn't be worried about this if I were a PS5 owner.

I just feel this is similar story as the yields due to clocks and ps5 will overheat rumors which both turned out to be not true. FUD is strong when sony is concerned. I assume sony would get info from samsung&co for needed cooling as ssd manufactures for sure want to sell ssd drives that fit ps5. If not take some older power hungry nvme ssd and assume doubling bandwidth doubles heat production and add a bit of safety margin to reach something like 8-10W cooling needed. If I can do this type of guestimate surely sony engineers can do better. Not a big deal to overdesign initial models and optimize cost down once dust settles.

Sony has spoken about game specific fan profiles. I wouldn't be surprised if sony tries to minimize noise by only increasing fan speed if external ssd is attached. I wouldn't be surprised if they even profile compatible ssd's and optimize fan speed based on how much heat each ssd produces. This could easily lead to misunderstanding and doom and gloom type of FUD when the intent of optimization is misunderstood.

 

[function]

I just feel this is similar story as the yields due to clocks and ps5 will overheat rumors which both turned out to be not true. FUD is strong when sony is concerned. I assume sony would get info from samsung&co for needed cooling as ssd manufactures for sure want to sell ssd drives that fit ps5. If not take some older power hungry nvme ssd and assume doubling bandwidth doubles heat production and add a bit of safety margin to reach something like 8-10W cooling needed. If I can do this type of guestimate surely sony engineers can do better. Not a big deal to overdesign initial models and optimize cost down once dust settles.

Sony has spoken about game specific fan profiles. I wouldn't be surprised if sony tries to minimize noise by only increasing fan speed if external ssd is attached. I wouldn't be surprised if they even profile compatible ssd's and optimize fan speed based on how much heat each ssd produces. This could easily lead to misunderstanding and doom and gloom type of FUD when the intent of optimization is misunderstood.

Manufacturers have tight margins. Taking worst case and doubling it might not have been the smartest move for Sony.

And it's not just about the wattage. It's about unique thermal densities and unique cooling characteristics of specific SSDs that weren't even in production when the PS5 case and cooling was designed.

I'm sure Sony will solve this - infact I have no doubt - but you're making the classic mistake of coming from a position of relative ignorance and assuming that Sony's desired solution is n00b level to implement.

And again, it's not just about Wattage. It's about heat, throttling thresholds, realistic worse case workloads, acceptable fan noise under a range of situations, and about a lot of different potential devices with different characteristics.

Sony typically deliver really good end user experiences. I expect they intend to maintain that. And so they should.

 

[manux]

I'm sure Sony will solve this - infact I have no doubt - but you're making the classic mistake of coming from a position of relative ignorance and assuming that Sony's desired solution is n00b level to implement.

I'm not claiming it's easy. I'm claiming it would be surprising if sony didn't figure it out during ps5 design phase. Somebody probably put months if not years to thermal design of ps5 including external ssd. If it was me I would have built thermal heating vehicles that allow wide variety of wattage. Thermal vehicle(s) would be shaped like nvme ssd. Then try it with with variety of heatsinks and and also no heatsink to figure out if my design is good or not. Thermal vehicle would go from something like 1W to 20W to simulate both extremes.

I'm also claiming it would be very surprising if power requirement of pcie4 nvme ssd's came out as a surprise to them. Sony has enough contacts and smart engineers to figure this out ahead of time.