Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Karamazov

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    PS5 L'oreal edition
     
  2. Rootax

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    What about the loot boxes ? Native 4k ?
     
  3. Karamazov

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    loot boxes to get more hairstyles maybe

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    Opens up an entire world of potential with new cross-product marketing, like L'Orriel Paris.
     
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  5. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Are you sure this is not some new beard growing technology, like if you don't chose to shave between games, over a few weeks your player's beards get longer. A bit like Witcher 3?
     
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  6. Karamazov

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  7. thicc_gaf

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    AFAIK, N6 reduces the power consumption but there's no perf. gains on the node. Maybe there's a density increase, but I don't know enough on it.

    Had forgotten about the PS3 getting that revision, but see that also fits into what I mentioned before about not necessarily seeing systems get revisions that soon unless they were addressing notable issues. Tho in PS3's case the "notable issue" was mainly production costs being ridiculously high; they couldn't axe the Blu-Ray drive, integrate the CPU/GPU into a single package or even change up the RAM and since BC wasn't as big a thing at that time it made sense to reduce costs by getting rid of the legacy hardware.

    If N6 goes into mass production next year, I still think 2021 is too early. 2022 might be a better fit, though. I'm curious if they could leverage N6 for a hypothetical PS5 Pro, but not like something which is a clear boost like the Pro was over PS4 base. More like squeezing out a tad more performance from the older power consumption profile, and increasing storage space. Maybe bundle in PSVR with it too as another SKU, encourage wider adoption for VR going forward while PSVR2 can still be kept standalone.

    This is in-game, right? If so, extremely impressive. Pretty much CG quality, at least on the level of some of Capcom's recent RE CG films.
     
  8. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil Monsieur Geezer
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    Sorry, I mistook your joke for snobbery.

    Personally, I'd love a PS5 Pro Duo a few years down the line, when 3nm is economically feasible: a doubled PS5, consisting of 2 PS5 APU's as chiplets connected to ~2-4GB of HBM as a cross-chiplet cache.

    It would certainly be expensive, but I think that's the purpose of the higher tier model. The base PS5's APU isn't particularly large, and will be tiny on 3nm. It'll also be child's play to power and cool on that node. 14gbps GDDR6 won't be all that expensive in a few years' time either.

    So the cheap, lower end will be taken care of by the base console. Why also aim for the also cheap, but slightly less low end of the market? In an era of $1000 consumer GPU's?

    Release a $700 PS5 Pro Duo in 2025 and spend the next 5 years getting to a point where a more refined design can be sold at $500 as the PS6.

    The PS5's narrow and fast philosophy went against the PS4's wide and slow philosophy. 36CU's was the smallest Sony could go while ensuring near flawless to substantially enhanced PS4 Pro BC. Any smaller would impede replacing the PS4 Pro, any larger would create a more costly chip.

    Would a 72CU chip even be much larger than that of the XSX? Or if Sony were to go with a chiplet design, they'd have a single chip design to bin according to whether one goes in the base model or two go in the Pro model. Might that be enough to offset some of the cost of more expensive 3nm manufacturing?

    I'm not so sure. I think this go around, with a solid GPU architecture, a solid CPU architecture, and solid IO, there's scope for rolling generations. An adequately powerful PS5 Pro could be a fairly limited PS6.

    With rolling generations and a substantially powerful PS5 Pro, the PS6 doesn't need to be much more powerful. If the PS5 Pro is 20.5 TF's, the PS6 could be 72CU's clocked at 2.8GHz for 25.8TF's. The same principle can apply across the board.

    Personally, I'm loving the PS4 Pro enhanced games I'm playing on my PS5, as dynamic resolutions don't appear to dip and shimmer really at all, and framerates are a dream (especially FFXV's "lite" mode.)

    Moore's law is slowing down, game development time is increasing. I really think the generations can afford to last longer - something like 10 years rather than 6 - and adequately powerful mid-gen consoles are the way to achieve that IMO.
     
  9. Karamazov

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    yes it's ingame, or at least replay camera.
    it looks really good indeed for a football game. But it's still not at the level of that shrek 2 gif from 2004.
     
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  10. Unknown Soldier

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    Why does he look like an Arab in the PS5 version?
     
  11. TheAlSpark

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    There was this a while back:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/1422...echnology-7-nm-with-higher-transistor-density
    So it doesn't look like a great win.
     
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  12. RDGoodla

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    Aquariuszi is not a TSMC worker. He works in an IC packaging and verification company.

    What he said is in his company there were fewer PS5 SOCs under verificaion. He didn't say TSMC
    produce less PS5 SOCs.
     
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  13. Mihailjones

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    Launch PS3s had ps2 hardware. (At Europe)

    At least the 60Gb model had it(not sure about the 40gb one, or the 80gb)

    But some definetly had it, I have one of those too.

    40gb didnt have card readers and some other items I believe
     
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  14. PSman1700

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    Maybe its changing direction rather then slowing down.
     
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  15. manux

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    It really depends how one defines moore's law. In layman terms progress measured in pure fps has slowed dramatically down from 20 years ago. 1080ti is 3.5 years old and latest fastest gpu's are barely 100% faster in average. 60fps vs. 30fps. In reality 1080ti is now 4 years old chip. It's likely in 4 years perf maybe double again. Improvements are slowing down despite the power draw going up, chips getting bigger etc.

    Hope for really big gains in performance are purely in innovation outside of adding more of the same. Innovation like figuring out design with lower power draw to be able to use more transistors, dedicated units for accelerating specific things, ray tracing being new thing can see optimizations in implementation, dlss like solutions maybe becoming good enough to provide more perf etc.

    From my POV good engineering makes it looks like moore's law is alive. It would look very different if old architecture was just ported to 7nm or 5nm

    This is what anandtech has to say about tmsc roadmap and promises. Note power improvements and perf don't stack up. Adding all those transistors into chips in 5nm would eat some serious power unless something smart is done in design phase.

    upload_2020-12-3_15-46-23.png

     
    #7595 manux, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  16. pTmdfx

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    A die shrink for a Lite/Silm version has been a tradition for volume & yield improvements. Not a surprise; maybe 2022 given alleged AMD roadmaps for their own products (a good projection of AMD’s process tech roadmap).

    As for a hypothetical PS5 Pro, the margin of improvements for N7 to N6 does not seem enough to pull off a 2x improvements in GPU (PS4 to PS4 Pro). Especially when N6 was touted to offer only a 16% higher logic density, and the lack of iso comparison figures seem to indicate a limited to no power saving.

    So I would guess the next major SoC upgrade would be on 5nm, and no earlier than fall 2022 (judging by the alleged 6nm Rembrandt APU launching in 2022). This is unless a chiplet config (that still resembles the same system architecture with unified memory) is on the table, while bumping the SoC power budget above the PS5 design target is acceptable (which is unlikely).
     
    #7596 pTmdfx, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  17. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    It is not unheard of but Sony had to reduce costs and make the price attractive fast because the PS3 was going downhill and punching holes in Sony's pockets.
    Which is the complete opposite of PS5. They cut off all the "extras" that were barely going to be used.
     
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  18. Insight

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    The Dualsense features on Worms Rumble is freaking amazing, unlike big games like Fortnite and Rainbow Six
    Rainbow Six is mixed bag for me but Fortnite is by far the worse implantation I've seen so far
    Anyone with a PS5 should try Worms as it's free with PSPlus, every gun has different trigger resistance and they feel very satisfying to use
     
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  19. chris1515

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  20. Karamazov

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    Can't wait for ASCII doom eternal
     
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