Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Nesh]

But there is no discrapancy in this. If GPU is running 30% at max frequency, 50% of time 2-3% close to limit and 20% of time around 2GHz no body will notice it nor would he be lying. Technically, most of the time GPU would be spending at or near that frequency.

Entire conference was PR exercise as much as it was technical deep dive. You do not expect Sony to just pass chance to show their system in better light after XSX showed theirs?

It wasnt a marketing talk. It was information for developer's consumption which was decided to be used for general consumption.
The presentation holds more credibility because of Marc Cerny and his role in achitecting a proper functional product, not an image of a product through the eyes of a marketing director.
Thats someone else's job

 

[Rootax]

RDNA 2 and mass produce product is a PS5 and Series X. A great way for AMD to enjoy economies of scale (or scope) when it will be available for everyone in the PC space. Sony made customization on a technology that partly exists and partly is in the making. There is nothing strange about it. We just need the details to understand how effective these customizations were

It doesn't change the fact that amd has not produce a high speed power efficient gpu in a while. Having doubt about their capacity to do so is normal IMO. We'll see anyway...

 

[Nesh]

It doesn't change the fact that amd has not produce a high speed power efficient gpu in a while. Having doubt about their capacity to do so is normal IMO. We'll see anyway...

Well we can be a bit optimistic because this is not a discrete AMD GPU with its own cooling system that should be able to fit on a PC motherboard. It is a complete hardware with specific targets and thus specific form factor with Sony's customizations. It may be able to incorporate a specific cooling solution that may not have been available otherwise because of it. We will see but I understand your concern.

 

[PSman1700]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/si...es-x-and-ps5-spec-sheets.175808/post-30072414

Someone in the dev industry sharing some thoughts. No idea how usefull because ye, source isn't anyone i know myself.

It wasnt a marketing talk.

True, but it has an influence because their video was aimed at consumers aswell, they announced their 18th march video on just about every casual gaming site/fb pages etc. Like any sane company would do, present your product in the best way possible. The same goes for MS and its XSX, and every other product out there.

Edit: Abit off topic, i see Cerny using a Sony Vaio, are they still producing and selling those? Always loved the vaio line, both staitionary and laptop. Nowhere to be sold anymore (sweden/holland).

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

It wasnt a marketing talk. It was information for developer's consumption which was decided to be used for general consumption.
The presentation holds more credibility because of Marc Cerny and his role in achitecting a proper functional product, not an image of a product through the eyes of a marketing director.
Thats someone else's job

No, I definitely dont agree with you. If you think Mark just set on his chair and made presentation for first deep dive into PS5 (that has been watched 10+ million time in 3 days) without input from marketing dept then you are kidding yourself.

You dont do deep dive for developers and talk why TF dont tell the whole story or what are CUs and why its better to have less of them with higher clocks.

Notice he didnt guarantee anything, he didnt say what "close" is and what "most of time" means. This is textbook example of wiggle room. I dont doubt var freq is better then fixed for them, not only for performance but also for marketing, but if by his own admission they struggled to lock at 2.0GHz, then I have a bit more conservative expectations of 2.23GHz, especially since no clear guarantee, numbers or percentages were given.

 

[Nesh]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/si...es-x-and-ps5-spec-sheets.175808/post-30072414

Someone in the dev industry sharing some thoughts. No idea how usefull because ye, source isn't anyone i know myself.



True, but it has an influence because their video was aimed at consumers aswell, they announced their 18th march video on just about every casual gaming site/fb pages etc. Like any sane company would do, present your product in the best way possible. The same goes for MS and its XSX, and every other product out there.

Bu if you look at it from that perspective you immediately understand that although this was used for general consumption, it wasnt sugar coated with flare and to impress. Which is what PR presentations and unvails do and this is why there was no information for the gamer's digestion, no use of impressive words, nothing in general that made this a public speech trying to present the PS5 as the best thing since slice bread. People understand numbers not technical terms. This is why for many it was a strange boring presentation with bad tech numbers, tecnical terms people cant understand and zero demos. If this was a marketing talk Cerny would have chosen only the good numbers, avoid mention of bad numbers and call it the fastest console ever. He didnt. It was a good presentation for those that are going to make games on it.

 

[VitaminB6]

But there is no discrapancy in this. If GPU is running 30% at max frequency, 50% of time 2-3% close to limit and 20% of time around 2GHz no body will notice it nor would he be lying. Technically, most of the time GPU would be spending at or near that frequency.

Entire conference was PR exercise as much as it was technical deep dive. You do not expect Sony to just pass chance to show their system in better light after XSX showed theirs?

When I predicted that Sony would use boost clocks, I mentioned that it's a way for them to blur the line between the two consoles capabilities. It absolutely is doing just that. Clearly Sony could've just gave some real world scenarios of what clocks look like under load for both the CPU and GPU but they didn't do that. They managed to give very detailed info on their SSD tech but for some reason were very vague on CPU/GPU clock frequencies when under load. For me it's very obvious why they did that and it wasn't by accident. Like I said it's actually a really smart move by them. I see a ton of PS5 VS XBSX spec sheets out there and all of them are using Sony's peak TF number as a means of comparison with XBSX. With time and actual third party games to compare I think it will become pretty clear that the PS5 is not running at their max clock frequency (or close to it) nearly as often as some are hoping, but we'll see. If I'm wrong when we have more info feel free to call me out, I'll be OK with that

 

[anexanhume]

Someone in the dev industry sharing some thoughts. No idea how usefull because ye, source isn't anyone i know myself.

This more or less contradicts what Schreier has been saying (or more precisely, relaying what developers have told him) and that is an unverified commenter.

 

[orangpelupa]

What I suspect is that the cerny presentation was planned to be way more deeper for GDC. Then covid19 sweeps in, it adapted into a presentation for more general public.

Hence the feeling that the whole presentation only knee deep (or even, ankle deep), despite it focuses on technical stuff that doesn't feels like for general consumption.

The PR people probably already did their best to transform cerny's script. They can't cut too much because it then will be too hollow. They can't add the usual PR whizbang because they didn't have materials prepared and they can't get more "hype hype" person to do the presentation as it was still way too technical for PR person to present

 

[Nesh]

No, I definitely dont agree with you. If you think Mark just set on his chair and made presentation for first deep dive into PS5 (that has been watched 10+ million time in 3 days) without input from marketing dept then you are kidding yourself.

You dont do deep dive for developers and talk why TF dont tell the whole story or what are CUs and why its better to have less of them with higher clocks.

Notice he didnt guarantee anything, he didnt say what "close" is and what "most of time" means. This is textbook example of wiggle room. I dont doubt var freq is better then fixed for them, not only for performance but also for marketing, but if by his own admission they struggled to lock at 2.0GHz, then I have a bit more conservative expectations of 2.23GHz, especially since no clear guarantee, numbers or percentages were given.

Thats proof this was the least PR presentation we could get. If this was a marketing presentation from Cerny, he would have not implied the slightest that good performance is not guaranteed. You dont communicate doubt when you want to create good impression in the market to get the maximum from customers and investors. When you talk technical to developers that will create games on it, you will talk in technical terms how the hardware works

 

[PSman1700]

Bu if you look at it from that perspective you immediately understand that although this was used for general consumption, it wasnt sugar coated with flare and to impress. Which is what PR presentations and unvails do and this is why there was no information for the gamer's digestion, no use of impressive words, nothing in general that made this a public speech trying to present the PS5 as the best thing since slice bread. People understand numbers not technical terms. This is why for many it was a strange boring presentation with bad tech numbers, tecnical terms people cant understand and zero demos. If this was a marketing talk Cerny would have chosen only the good numbers, avoid mention of bad numbers and call it the fastest console ever. He didnt. It was a good presentation for those that are going to make games on it.

Not denying that, but there was some PR influence, if there wasn't, it would be more strange then anything else we are discussing.
One of the first things he mentioned was high clock speeds, and how great and usefull it is over anything else, basically.

This more or less contradicts what Schreier has been saying (or more precisely, relaying what developers have told him) and that is an unverified commenter.

Jason Schreier's words are as much worth as that user who claims to be an industry developer. Don't put too much faith in Jason, he has dissapointed many people with his claims pre-ps5-reveal. I kid you not, some people know whats going on, but they won't make a show of it.

 

[Nesh]

Not denying that, but there was some PR influence, if there wasn't, it would be more strange then anything else we are discussing.
One of the first things he mentioned was high clock speeds, and how great and usefull it is over anything else, basically.



Jason Schreier's words are as much worth as that user who claims to be an industry developer. Don't put too much faith in Jason, he has dissapointed many people with his claims pre-ps5-reveal. I kid you not, some people know whats going on, but they won't make a show of it.

But what you posted is also some random unverified guy claiming somehing that might be true or false simply by chance.

We need to wait for actual implementations. So far we barely know nothing.

We have barely seen real examples on any of the two consoles nor anything verified from a third party developer.

 

[PSman1700]

But what you posted is also some random unverified guy claiming somehing that might be true or false simply by chance.

True, i even mentioned that in my first post sharing his thoughts.

We need to wait for actual implementations. So far we barely know nothing.

Agree, we know something, but not much.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Thats proof this was the least PR presentation we could get. If this was a marketing presentation from Cerny, he would have not implied the slightest that good performance is not guaranteed. You dont communicate doubt when you want to create good impression in the market to get the maximum from customers and investors. When you talk technical to developers that will create games on it, you will talk in technical terms how the hardware works

So was it technical GDC talk or tech talk for ordinary folks with sprinkle of PR? Because there was plenty of PR there, rest assured.

Same way MS said "we dont boost clocks, what you see is what is running at all times". Thats PR speak, even though technically it was tech deep dive with DF.

 

[orangpelupa]

Same way MS said "we dont boost clocks, what you see is what is running at all times". Thats PR speak, even though technically it was tech deep dive with DF.

Where's that info from?


So xsx will throttle from what factors? Temperatures and power? Or they left it to the developer? So frlor full action scenes developer can choose the max clocks (maybe for certain durations), then throttle down after the action scenes ends. So the gamer won't be bothered with noisy fan.

Or maybe policy limited like switch? Where Nintendo only allows boosting while loading.

 

[BRiT]

....

Read the DF specs. Xbox Series X has static GPU speed and selection of 2 cpu options, 3.6 GHz with SMT (8 cores with 16 threads) or 3.8 GHz without SMT (8 cores with 8 threads).

Only PS5 has dynamic frequencies.

 

[goonergaz]

Although from Cerny own words, he said "we expects GPU to spend most of its time at or close to this frequency."

What "most" means (51% does fit it for example) and what "at or close to means" I would say both 2200 and 2100 fit the bill) is to be seen. Performances will tell the whole story because there is no way we will ever find clocks at which consoles actually run.


I agree, although if you listen to what Cerny said closely, there is quite a bit of wiggle room where frequency might end up. We might see it at 2230MHz in cut scenes, then 2200MHz in exploration or 2100MHz in heavy fighting, perhaps even lower then 2000MHz in some corner caes ("original unreachable target"), yet it will all fit in with "close to and most of the time".

I thought it was quite clear; ‘more than 50% at 2.23ghz but in worst case scenario drops to no lower than 2.1ghz’ (2.1 is lazy math)

No, I definitely dont agree with you. If you think Mark just set on his chair and made presentation for first deep dive into PS5 (that has been watched 10+ million time in 3 days) without input from marketing dept then you are kidding yourself.

You dont do deep dive for developers and talk why TF dont tell the whole story or what are CUs and why its better to have less of them with higher clocks.

Notice he didnt guarantee anything, he didnt say what "close" is and what "most of time" means. This is textbook example of wiggle room. I dont doubt var freq is better then fixed for them, not only for performance but also for marketing, but if by his own admission they struggled to lock at 2.0GHz, then I have a bit more conservative expectations of 2.23GHz, especially since no clear guarantee, numbers or percentages were given.

It was watched by so many because so many want to know about PS5.

This more or less contradicts what Schreier has been saying (or more precisely, relaying what developers have told him) and that is an unverified commenter.

But fits his agenda so is worth bringing forward.

So was it technical GDC talk or tech talk for ordinary folks with sprinkle of PR? Because there was plenty of PR there, rest assured.

Same way MS said "we dont boost clocks, what you see is what is running at all times". Thats PR speak, even though technically it was tech deep dive with DF.

Ms presentation was definitely more PR focused with clear examples and loads of pretty graphics. Sony was a tech talk to dev with slides and little else, Maybe dumbed down a bit as they knew people outside GDC would see it.

 

[PSman1700]

It was watched by so many because so many want to know about PS5.

And sony was totally unaware of that prior the unveil.

 

[orangpelupa]

Read the DF specs. Xbox Series X has static GPU speed and selection of 2 cpu options, 3.6 GHz with SMT (8 cores with 16 threads) or 3.8 GHz without SMT (8 cores with 8 threads).

Only PS5 has dynamic frequencies.

I know that, that's why I was asking where the source for the info for the post I quoted.

My understanding is that post explains that the static freq of xsx is a PR speak.

 

[BRiT]

My understanding is that post explains that the static freq of xsx is a PR speak.

It is genuine specs. Being a PR statement does not mean it is incorrect or disingenuous. No source needed.
Tech tone is "GPU @ 1.825 GHz, CPU @ 3.6 GHz SMT or 3.8 GHz No SMT".
PR tone is "we dont boost clocks, what you see is what is running at all times".

Any statement made to the public is PR.