Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Deleted member 11852]

lets see its gonna be different with PS5 or not. As Microsoft has been letting counterfeit propagates for years. But Sony seems very willing to bring the law. Althought, I'm not sure how they can bring the law to Chinese manufacturers/sellers...

With trademarks and copyright, if you don't defend it, you lose it. You have to be seen to take action even it getting the Chinese government to take action is difficult. But folks talk like this is China of five years ago. Two years ago, the Chinese Government established the State Administration for Market Regulation (SAMR) who are tasked with tackling the problem. The Chinese Government want Western firms to invest in China and have things made in China but they know that lack of IP protection, bit copyright or trademarks, remains a barrier for many. It is getting better.

 

[turkey]

With trademarks and copyright, if you don't defend it, you lose it. You have to be seen to take action even it getting the Chinese government to take action is difficult. But folks talk like this is China of five years ago. Two years ago, the Chinese Government established the State Administration for Market Regulation (SAMR) who are tasked with tackling the problem. The Chinese Government want Western firms to invest in China and have things made in China but they know that lack of IP protection, bit copyright or trademarks, remains a barrier for many. It is getting better.

Trademarks for what are designed as removable plastic parts ?. I saw the effort and crack to release them, that is only going to end in snapped pegs / clips.

That seems shitty at best and designing in faults for expensive official replacements at worst.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Trademarks for what are designed as removable plastic parts ?. I saw the effort and crack to release them, that is only going to end in snapped pegs / clips.

Yes, there are mechanics to protect industrial design. I doubt you own many products that aren't covered by multiple design trademarks. Is everybody "shitty" for not wanting others to blindly rip off their designs?

 

[orangpelupa]

AFAIK there's also laws that allows for compatible spare parts (people often talk about this in electricvehicles subreddit)

about defending trademark is a must or you lost it: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet

 

[PSman1700]

It all boils down to balancing the die budget between compute and memory resources. With RDNA2, AMD put the stops on chasing the raw FLOPS numbers and shifted the budget to the memory side of the equation with the Infinity Cache. I hope it pays off in the long term.

PS5 gpu not having this infinity cache, where did amd put the budget there? Does it even need it as the rx6700 doesnt seem to get it either (a 10.3tf model), aiming at the low-mid range markets.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

There's no proof anywhere that the PS5 or its desktop equivalent Navi 22 have no form of Infinity Cache.

 

[turkey]

Yes, there are mechanics to protect industrial design. I doubt you own many products that aren't covered by multiple design trademarks. Is everybody "shitty" for not wanting others to blindly rip off their designs?

This is a part not a whole design? They are not making a PS5, nor making something else look like a PS5. If these were replacement parts for an Xbox to look like a PS5 I would get it. But replacement parts for a PS5 to look like a PS5 seems fair to me.

Specifically as this is a spare part and not usable apart from applying back to the original item.

Anyhow I am probably diverting the thread

 

[Leoneazzurro5]

These are dies aimed at completely different targets and markets. One is a console APU which adds 8 Zen2 cores to the GPU, it is targetted at 4K mid/low FPS and may trade die size with bus width because of raw costs of the GPU vs RAM/PCB/assembly (Sony and MS may get better prices for assembly by placing millions of orders in advance) while Navi22 is a discrete GPU aimed at 108p0/1440p high FPS and at the mobile PC market.

 

[marifire]

PS5 gpu not having this infinity cache, where did amd put the budget there? Does it even need it as the rx6700 doesnt seem to get it either (a 10.3tf model), aiming at the low-mid range markets.

Not sure about caché yet, i guess Navi22 should still use Infinity cache scaled down. RX 6700 XT should be at least 12TFlop at 2300Mhz 40cu. Close to 2080 Ti and 3070 performance to fill the gap considering RX 6800 is around 15% faster than those, but sadly it seems won´t make it before year end...

 

[Globalisateur]

Some infos from a guy already having the PS5 at home (I won't leak his name, because of NDA, but I trust this guy 100%):

- Controller is magic
- SSD available size: around 700GB
- Boost mode on PS4 games available (out of the box without patch, not sure about that), dramatically improving the experience
- Console basically silent
- SSD incredibly fast

 

[chris1515]

Some infos from a guy already having the PS5 at home (I won't leak his name, because of NDA, but I trust this guy 100%):

- Controller is magic
- SSD available size: around 700GB
- Boost mode on PS4 games available out of the box, without patch, dramatically improving the experience
- Console basically silent
- SSD incredibly fast

This is what I heard too silent at least on Spiderman and Astrobot. Journalist in Europe didn't have access to Demon's souls last week.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

This is a part not a whole design? They are not making a PS5, nor making something else look like a PS5.

I don't believe you have to replicate the entirety of an industrial design to infringe.

 

[Erinyes]

PS5 gpu not having this infinity cache, where did amd put the budget there? Does it even need it as the rx6700 doesnt seem to get it either (a 10.3tf model), aiming at the low-mid range markets.

With regards to the PS5, it's not AMD who decided the budget or configuration. That would be Sony. RX6700 almost certainly does have a large Infinity cache.

There's no proof anywhere that the PS5 or its desktop equivalent Navi 22 have no form of Infinity Cache.

Given that we know the die sizes of the console SoCs, 8 core Zen2 block, and Navi 10 die size from which we can extrapolate, it's fairly obvious that the consoles do not have infinity cache (or at least not a large one). MS did not make any mention of it whatsoever at Hot chips while they did explicitly mention the size of the L2. However, given the rumored ~340 mm2 die size of N22, it's likely it does have a sizeable infinity cache, either 96 or 64 MB.

These are dies aimed at completely different targets and markets. One is a console APU which adds 8 Zen2 cores to the GPU, it is targetted at 4K mid/low FPS and may trade die size with bus width because of raw costs of the GPU vs RAM/PCB/assembly (Sony and MS may get better prices for assembly by placing millions of orders in advance) while Navi22 is a discrete GPU aimed at 108p0/1440p high FPS and at the mobile PC market.

And the consoles are not as sensitive to power consumption compared to cost, which the infinity cache adds to the already large 7nm SoCs. Given that they are also going with SSDs, 16 GB GDDR6, etc the BoM costs are fairly high this generation.

 

[Insight]

Some infos from a guy already having the PS5 at home (I won't leak his name, because of NDA, but I trust this guy 100%):

- Controller is magic
- SSD available size: around 700GB
- Boost mode on PS4 games available (out of the box without patch, not sure about that), dramatically improving the experience
- Console basically silent
- SSD incredibly fast

No surprises?

 

[Globalisateur]

No surprises?

Well, the 700GB SSD (we have another leak saying 712GB) and Boost mode available at launch can be considered surprises.

 

[London Geezer]

Second secret GPU or it’s no surprise

 

[chris1515]

Second secret GPU or it’s no surprise

RDNA3 or 4 with infinity cache 16 or 32 MB, hidden misterxmedia for playstation GPU.

 

[Karamazov]

The dualsense can actually be deployed into a VR headset

 

[Picao84]

The dualsense can actually be deployed into a VR headset

What do you mean?

 

[goonergaz]

What do you mean?

I assume a joke in that the VR headset will then include haptics lol

All joking aside, the DS5 will really help with VR immersion along with 3D audio