Photorealistic Screens of MotoGP (X360)

[pakotlar]

whatever. why would you want to draw your road right - you're focused on it only what, some ~90% percent of the time. the roadside shacks, OTH, and the true-to-life reproduction of the producer's favourite dinery on this course are sooo much more important for the realism of the experience!

Look, who cares about the road. They implemented that as a last-minute addition to appease their "out-there nutty" fans. They weren't even going to do it, but the stars aligned and they figured it was a sign. No, a REAL motorcycle game would be bare-bones; roads are for middle america.

edit: I see I'm a little OT. Well to add something of worth, I shall call upon my amazing powers of insight. Those pics vs. real-life were really eye opening. On the first comparison, my friend (who is decidedly illiterate when it comes to video-games) couldn't tell a difference between the pics. He was shocked when I told him that the first pic was a photograph. So that's something *whistles.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Too right!

Seems odd to me that they'll get everything else so right, but 'skimp out' on the AF. They way things currently look, the difference between this gen (XB360/PS3) and next-gen (PS4 etc) will be seen in the grounds!

lol, if you'd ever played MotoGP06 you'd realize that the last thing you can look at the ground detail, you have to concentrate so much on just keeping your lines that you hardly have to time to look at the backgrounds let alone the ground! This is a tough game!!

Also, don't take those caps literally, they don't represent at all what I'm seeing on my TV. Multiply the sharpness by 10 and you have something closer to the real thing. It's hard to judge AF when you're source image is completely blurred.

 

[darkblu]

Man, brutal lack of AF on the road there.

I don't know what's up with these devs. R300 could enable 16xAF in racing games at 1600x1200 back in 2002. Half the clock rate, half the texture units, twice the resolution. Just enable it on the road base and road marking textures only, and everyone's happy. I really do think it's a matter of devs not caring. Even in PC games, it was years after AF started appearing in various reviews' benchmarks that a game actually put the option in the game.

You can also pre-stetch the texture beforehand to reduce the AF cost in a racing game, because most of the anisotropy is in one direction. Geometry for the road lines, as per nAo's suggestion, is also good.

yes, there're various tricks to achieve anisotropy-like definition on the road in a racing game. but apprently the guys' attention went to roadside shacks. whatever.

 

[scooby_dooby]

whatever. why would you want to draw your road right - you're focused on it only what, some ~90% percent of the time. the roadside shacks, OTH, and the true-to-life reproduction of the producer's favourite dinery on this course are sooo much more important for the realism of the experience!

the only time you would ever notice filtering like this is when you wipe out

 

[darkblu]

lol, if you'd ever played MotoGP06 you'd realize that the last thing you can look at the ground detail, you have to concentrate so much on just keeping your lines that you hardly have to time to look at the backgrounds let alone the ground! This is a tough game!!

huh? you don't watch the road while playing? are you sure you play racing sims? oh, and backgrounds are one thing, the road is a _totally_ different thing.

as about when you can see filtering like this and when you don't - you _should_not_ see such at all. not in a title that pretends to be a sim.

 

[TheChefO]

how many more polys do you think?

at least 5

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I don't think lack of AF is a big deal in racing games like this one, the road moves so fast and even without AF the road gets sharp at the end, it doesn't bother as much when you are playing it compared to watching screenshots, however ofcourse it would be better to have AF than not have, and I must say that I'm getting concerned about the lack of AF in X360 games, but for racers it doesn't really bother me.

 

[TheChefO]

huh? you don't watch the road while playing? are you sure you play racing sims? oh, and backgrounds are one thing, the road is a _totally_ different thing.

as about when you can see filtering like this and when you don't - you _should_not_ see such at all. not in a title that pretends to be a sim.

Can some devs who are knowledgable on 360 hardware shed some light on why so many games on 360 are appearing without af?

I don't know about you all but in racing games my eyes are looking as far into the horizon as I can see to judge upcoming traffic and or turns properly.

btw - road/ground detail is for the gamer, background detail sells the game to the onlookers at best buy etc.

 

[darkblu]

I don't know about you all but in racing games my eyes are looking as far into the horizon as I can see to judge upcoming traffic and or turns properly.

of course your are looking at the road at some distance, the greater the distance the better. and this is exactly where AF (or similar-effect techniques) kicks in. a racing title, moreover one that pretends to be a sim, that does not bother to draw that right has a serious identity issue.

btw - road/ground detail is for the gamer, background detail sells the game to the onlookers at best buy etc.

precisely. i guess we can expect more 'other attactions' in racing sims this gen. perhaps road hookers?

 

[kyleb]

lol, if you'd ever played MotoGP06 you'd realize that the last thing you can look at the ground detail, you have to concentrate so much on just keeping your lines that you hardly have to time to look at the backgrounds let alone the ground! This is a tough game!!

That is one of the most absurd defences of a game on your favorate console that I have ever heard. Those lines that yoiu have to follow are on the damn ground, the track is what you have to stay on win, anyone whjos ever played the game has certianly spent a lot of time looking at the ground.

Also, don't take those caps literally, they don't represent at all what I'm seeing on my TV. Multiply the sharpness by 10 and you have something closer to the real thing. It's hard to judge AF when you're source image is completely blurred.

Yes the shots are blurry, but all the same the game has no AF which can be seen in the game just as easly as it is in the shots. But it's hard to understand that when you aren't rightly clear on what AF is, eh? I mean you are the guy that was shocked to hear that AF would help the shimmering guardrails in PGR3, and you still don't get it do you?

 

[Lysander]

I think MS/ATI should refine lod effect (mipmapping?) on 360.

 

[London Geezer]

That is one of the most absurd defences of a game on your favorate console that I have ever heard. Those lines that yoiu have to follow are on the damn ground, the track is what you have to stay on win, anyone whjos ever played the game has certianly spent a lot of time looking at the ground.

Yes the shots are blurry, but all the same the game has no AF which can be seen in the game just as easly as it is in the shots. But it's hard to understand that when you aren't rightly clear on what AF is, eh? I mean you are the guy that was shocked to hear that AF would help the shimmering guardrails in PGR3, and you still don't get it do you?

Let's not forget that he's also the guy who was 1000% convinced that Kameo had 4xAA when it clearly doesn't, using the "my TV shows no jaggis at all!" argument, until hundreds of people showed him that it's actually his TV that's blurring the image as Kameo has zero AA.

 

[scooby_dooby]

That is one of the most absurd defences of a game on your favorate console that I have ever heard.

Put away you [moderated] little hidden agenda conspiracies for 1 second, as if this has ANYTHING to do with what console it's on. [moderated]

The game moves too damn fast for you to be able to make out any of this detail on the road, so I could care less if it's there or not. It's simply something that people can pick out in screenshots and piss and moan about how it's missing. [moderated]

Sorry I'm a little more down to earth and don't give a shit about ground textures when I'm accelerating at 180mph. Maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm just sick of seeing people [moderated]

LB - you're the guy who continually passes judgement on games you haven't even played except for maybe for 20 minutes on a demo pod, yet that doesn't prevent you from post after post of your 2cents which come from absolutely no experience.

 

[TheChefO]

precisely. i guess we can expect more 'other attactions' in racing sims this gen. perhaps road hookers?

lol - ahhhhh ... I nice little mix of gta spice in everything then ay?

I hope it doesn't get to that point but seriously: Are there any 360 devs here that can perhaps shed some light on why we have seen 360 games even now, not using af?

 

[kyleb]

Put away you [moderated] little hidden agenda conspiracies for 1 second, as if this has ANYTHING to do with what console it's on. [moderated]

I'm not accusing you of defending this game intentionally becuase it is on your favorite console. I'm saying that you defend games on your favorite a lot and this is one of the most absurd defenses yet. Though in retrospect I suppose I have to agree with LB that the "Kameo uses x4aa" was worse.

The game moves too damn fast for you to be able to make out any of this detail on the road, so I could care less if it's there or not. It's simply something that people can pick out in screenshots and piss and moan about how it's missing. [moderated]

Sorry I'm a little more down to earth and don't give a shit about ground textures when I'm accelerating at 180mph. Maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm just sick of seeing people [moderated]

Maybe, if it wasn't for the fact that your argument is blatently false. Accelerating at 180mph or otherwise, the 360 version of MotoGP has crappy texture filtering compared to what could be acomplished with even just x2af.

I think MS/ATI should refine lod effect (mipmapping?) on 360.

You can't rightly blame ATI is no question of the console being able to do good texture filtering, Condemned proved that at launch and at least a few games have shown respectable AF since launch as well. Burnout Revenge is an example of a racer with much better texture filtering on the roads compared to games like MotoGP and PGR3.

I do blame MS a bit though for doing the big "HD Era" 720p +AA bit and not paying any respect to quality texture filtering.

 

[darkblu]

I do blame MS a bit though for doing the big "HD Era" 720p +AA bit and not paying any respect to quality texture filtering.

wha?! you don't salivate at HD images for the sake of EIGH DEE?! and you dare to as much as hint of pixel quality?!! are you nuts! are you a human being at all? how dare, you little...! go hide in your critter's den and don't show out until i say so! ..and don't you ever badmouth MS marketing again! ever!

 

[Lysander]

This one is sharper

In honest, tokyo track looks like it came from ridge racer. Game should be out at june 9 and then we shall see.

 

[Hardknock]

Let's not forget that he's also the guy who was 1000% convinced that Kameo had 4xAA when it clearly doesn't, using the "my TV shows no jaggis at all!" argument, until hundreds of people showed him that it's actually his TV that's blurring the image as Kameo has zero AA.

Uhhh, what are you talking about? Link to this supposed "hundreds of people" showing him it has jaggies? Kameo has virtually zero jaggies and is definitely using some amount of AA.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sorry I'm a little more down to earth and don't give a shit about ground textures when I'm accelerating at 180mph. Maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm just sick of seeing people [moderated]

AF in this instance I think a thing very much in demand. A racer is played looking at the road ahead. In PS1's day the problem was non-correct textures that produced wiggly zig-zags on the road lines. In PS2 the lines are sharp but we get shimmering. Next-gen it seems everything is getting mipmapped to a blur. The most important parts of a racer are the road and fixings along it that delimit the route you are to follow. If you can't make these out, you can't see when to turn. So IMO spending resources on nice clear buildings at the cost of sharp road and route details is a bad choice. To present a crass argument, which would you prefer from a racer, photoaccurate buildings and crowds and a plain grey road with plain grey walls and indistinct signs, or a photoaccurate road with photoaccurate markings and signs and plain grey cubes for buildings and spectators? As the trimmings of a racer in its scenery are totally secondary to what's needed for gameplay, the balancing of where to spend resources should favour the essential components - the road and it's markings. In a muddy FPS or what have you AF isn't so important, but if there's any game it's needed, it's a racer. Having blurry splodges exactly at the centre of focus is silly. It's something you'd no more want than DOF blurring out the way ahead!

 

[Tap In]

those pics are pure crap compared to what I see on my HDTV

AF aside (and damn I wish they would use it!) it's awfully hard to have a fair discussion about these games when only a few people actually are able to see what they truly look like in person on an HDTV.