Phil Harrison's GDC keynote - Home, LittleBigPlanet & more

DC, I don't think there's any good in discussing current feature sets vs. possibilites 5 to 10 years into the future. You obviously look at Home as what it may become, which is all good and nice, but just isn't here yet. In 5-10 years, the internet as we know it might get replaced by something else...

So you think it will take 5-10 years to implement server-side extensions to add conference rooms, bars, classrooms, shared white boards, etc? Don't you realize that the bowling alley, arcade games, and pool are already a lot more work than this? For example, moderated chat could be done with no modifications whatsoever to the client, it can be done purely on the server-side just like Source engine commands which intercept chat messages and reroute them.

Remember the Doom3 presentation in 2001? It took id 3 years to deliver what they've promised (and it was really cool) - then another 3 years to finally get close to the game visuals (proper soft shadows, larger enviroments, more characters, realistic shaders) that we've imagined into those low-quality shakycam videos.

Apples to Oranges. ID had to go from tech demo to delivering 40 hours of game play. They had to develop the game, the game logic, weapons, art assets, etc etc. We're not talking about developing vast amounts of content. We're talking about taking a movie theater already demonstrated on HOME and modifying the server-side chat logic so that chats can be moderated, and so that thousands of people can be in the same room without clutter by sorting them into identical looking rooms of N people each (N=16/64/128/etc) while allowing certain VIPs to exist in all rooms and for videos to play in sync in all rooms.

This won't even require client mods IMHO. The server is responsible for reporting to the client who is present in a particular area. It can easily maintain the illusion of multiple rooms existing in the same physical location simply by aggregating people into mutually independent groups and not sending visibility information to clients of people who are not in your group. IMHO, something like this is a simple modification and probably only a few months of work.

It took me one week to implement something like this on a Jabber server for a customer support application, that allowed multiple customers to be in the same "chat room" but not be able to see or hear each other, whilst customer support reps could span multiple virtual rooms.
 
Time and Place indeed.

The time to step up their game was/is now, not months from now.

But judging from the responses here and abroad, all they needed to please the crowd was a sims clone.:???:

I was expecting more.

There seems to be a considerable amount of bias (against Sony) coming from you and LY throughout the course of this thread.. One wonders if MS had announced such a service as an XBL augmentation whether your reaction to it would have been the same..?

I don't understand why you feel that Sony are trying to please all those dissappointed people with Home when in truth they are merely attempting to broaden the playstation experience which in turn they would hope to leverage to capture a new userbase who may have possibly never even seen the appeal in consoles or console gaming..

Surely if YOU don't see the appeal in the service then you must be able to still give credit considering the response to their announcements so far shows that ALOT of others do..?

The time is critical, and well ... Motorstorm seems to be a flop so that's one big title down the drain and Warhawk doesn't seem to be much to look forward to now, so to me the timing for this event to show something more than HOME and Little World has come and gone. Sony missed out.

Sony missied out on what?

Your making so many negative claims with no substansiated basis (motorstorm was a flop..?? how??? critically? (it was definitely high scoring..) or financially..? (they still got pretty good sales considering the genre..) I don't know how you came to this conclusion..) that I find it increasingly difficult to give credibility to your oppinions presented..

Then again I was not one of the priviledged few that saw KZ behind closed doors so this may be where the excitement is truly brewing from.

To those claiming KZ is just cannon fodder etc. and HOME/Little World is where it's at, wrong. Those two titles may be big to a handful of people but to the vast majority these two are filler. Nothing more. What's worse is the people that would really dig HOME are mostly the same ones that have the system already. Little world is being developed on the wrong platform currently. On Wii, it would make a killing. On a $600 system aimed at hardcore/ av-philes, not so much.

What justification do you have to make such claims?
Judging from the majority of peoples responses on a board like B3D I'd say its MUCH easier to infer that the hardcore crowd are even more impressed with Home and LBP than anyone else.. & once LBP hits the shelves and Sony marketing picks up for the product I have little cause to beleive it wouldn't have the same effect on the greater populous (non-gamers included).. Whether they are enough to shift the £425 console off the shelves at a greater rate than currently is another question.. But certainly in Japan, if Gundamn Mosou can do it then I have little cause to believe products/services like Home and LBP wouldn't go down a storm over there too..

I truly hope for their sake that KZ is all it's cracked up to be. I'm not looking for one monopoly to be replaced by another.:cry:

I'm sure alot of people agree with you on this.. But for many gamers who rest as the heart and soul of the playstation userbase (all those hundred million PS2 gamers and possibly some PS3 owners) who have never really been attractee's of the FPS genre (considering the strength in numbers the PS2 had and the consoles lack of games that fit the genre thereof) I hardly doubt they care about games like KZ and i'm sure there are many other titles (underwraps and in the pipeline) which are much more appealing (e.g. FFXIII, MGS4, DMC4, RE5 etc etc...)
 
Time and Place indeed.

The time to step up their game was/is now, not months from now.

But judging from the responses here and abroad, all they needed to please the crowd was a sims clone.:???:

I was expecting more.

The time is critical, and well ... Motorstorm seems to be a flop so that's one big title down the drain and Warhawk doesn't seem to be much to look forward to now, so to me the timing for this event to show something more than HOME and Little World has come and gone. Sony missed out.

Then again I was not one of the priviledged few that saw KZ behind closed doors so this may be where the excitement is truly brewing from.

To those claiming KZ is just cannon fodder etc. and HOME/Little World is where it's at, wrong. Those two titles may be big to a handful of people but to the vast majority these two are filler. Nothing more. What's worse is the people that would really dig HOME are mostly the same ones that have the system already. Little world is being developed on the wrong platform currently. On Wii, it would make a killing. On a $600 system aimed at hardcore/ av-philes, not so much.

I truly hope for their sake that KZ is all it's cracked up to be. I'm not looking for one monopoly to be replaced by another.:cry:

Your posts become more and more amusing. Motorstorm a flop? Prove it. Your emphasis on Killzone as a 'saviour' is also highly misplaced. I don't know why you place such a burden on it, it's one of Sony's smaller hits from the previous generation (not to mention one that wasn't exactly a critical darling).

It's funny you talk about games, waffle on about Killzone, and then ignore that we've had new information and media on stuff like, Ratchet & Clank, a bigger (and more critically acclaimed) franchise from the previous generation. Speaking of which, in the week around GDC we've had new information or media on several 'big' PS3 titles, along with the announcement of a very exciting new title. There has not been a lack of game updates to discuss in the last week or so if one has been paying attention.

You seem increasingly disingenuous, looking for any avenue of complaint when it comes to Sony. Between announcements and game updates on the sidelines, Sony had a much better week for new information than either of the other platform-holders. They could move the earth, moon and stars, and seemingly you would still strike a negative note.

Anyway, I hate to even discuss this with you. This is a thread about Sony's GDC announcements, not what wasn't announced, or what selective malcontents would have wish to have had announced.
 
Chef's latest post was pure comedy tbh..

Well, I guess if someone's not interested in a PS3 and doesnt read any news posted, then that someone might be asking "Where are the games Sony?" but those that are interested might know better. ;) Also, LBP has impressed almost every hardcore gamer out there. :p
 
It confuses me too why is Killzone 2 being labelled as the "saviour game". There's plenty other more high profile and more appealing games on the pipeline.
Is it because Killzone got the "Sony's Halo" stigma on it... and that it's now being viewed similarily in respect to Sony and PS3 as Halo 3 is for MS and xb360?

Similarily, why constantly compare Live! and PSN/Home, they obviously don't share the same roadmap and the priorities in their development are not going the same path.

So Sony should have had background downloading functioning already because Microsoft did it some 6 months ago already? Why? They released a year later, and it's already coming five months later. Is it a knee-jerk reaction to MS having the feature already or something Sony already had on their roadmap for PS3 firmwares.
If they only reacted to what the competition does and implemented the same features just because the competitor did it earlier, that would sure mess their internal project scheduling. Sure, they must react, but should they just play catch-up, or just follow their original roadmap.

The "Home", it hasn't yet got all the features Live has (bg dl, and unified friends list, and... is that all?), but surely, do you think those features won't be implemented relatively soon, and even improved upon from what they will be when launched.
Unified friends list, while a nice and useful feature, probably isn't something most PS3 owners know to miss.
If they were coming from xb360 and Live!, they might find it annoying their PS3 is missing that feature, but is that group significant enough for Sony to put that feature on the top of their list and priorties, while there's other things to do first, according to their roadmap.
Again, the applications you expect won't be possible with the feature set that Home's launching with in october. I wouldn't expect such a significant upgrade that would enable them within a few years. I mean, who's gonna be the lucky 64 (or rather 64 - actor + director...) guys who can join the Spiderman 3 chat? That'd be pointless...
You mean the actor + director of Spiderman 3 couldn't appear simultaneously in more than one "chat room" or "lobby", with only 64 people able to parttake in such event?
I'm sure, that technically, it wouldn't be a problem for thousands of people to participate is such event simultaneously. Not in a same lobby of course, but within separate lobbies (servers), so that the "main performer" in this case the actor + director of Spiderman 3 would not of course be just another avatars in one lobby, but appearing at the same time in all lobbies.
If what you said were a true limitation, then surely setting up the other public places with common content, like the various stores inside "Home" would be impossible too...
 
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There are many gamers in the world that do not like FPS games anyway (like me for example). A "saviour" game will be something that will appeal to just about anyone, like LittleBigPlanet for example.

I wouldn't really care if Killzone was the most realistic looking game ever made.
 
It confuses me too why is Killzone 2 being labelled as the "saviour game". There's plenty other more high profile and more appealing games on the pipeline.
Is it because Killzone got the "Sony's Halo" stigma on it... and that it's now being viewed similarily in respect to Sony and PS3 as Halo 3 is for MS and xb360?

Similarily, why constantly compare Live! and PSN/Home, they obviously don't share the same roadmap and the priorities in their development are not going the same path.

So Sony should have had background downloading functioning already because Microsoft did it some 6 months ago already? Why? They released a year later, and it's already coming five months later. Is it a knee-jerk reaction to MS having the feature already or something Sony already had on their roadmap for PS3 firmwares.
If they only reacted to what the competition does and implemented the same features just because the competitor did it earlier, that would sure mess their internal project scheduling. Sure, they must react, but should they just play catch-up, or just follow their original roadmap.

The "Home", it hasn't yet got all the features Live has (bg dl, and unified friends list, and... is that all?), but surely, do you think those features won't be implemented relatively soon, and even improved upon from what they will be when launched.
Unified friends list, while a nice and useful feature, probably isn't something most PS3 owners know to miss.
If they were coming from xb360 and Live!, they might find it annoying their PS3 is missing that feature, but is that group significant enough for Sony to put that feature on the top of their list and priorties, while there's other things to do first, according to their roadmap.

Some things just seems natural. If I meet up with a new friend in Home I should be able to chat with them while playing a game even if they dont have the same game I have. I mean you can do it on the PC through various means (and for a much longer period of time). I would assume that a unified friends list facilitates that. One thing that Sony could do in that arena to two up MS is make the friends list sortable. Maybe even make it so you can put your friends in groups. Yes things like bg dl would be nice. One of my friends refused to dl anything off live cause then he couldn't do anything with his box. Now he dl's all kinds of stuff. Can you at least cue stuff up for download on the PS3?

Anyhow, I am looking forward to Home. As well as LBP, and HS...
 
Sony should partner with Google (Jabber), Yahoo, and AOL to so that one can also chat with PC buddies, supporting SIP would be nice too.
 
Your posts become more and more amusing. Motorstorm a flop? Prove it. Your emphasis on Killzone as a 'saviour' is also highly misplaced. I don't know why you place such a burden on it, it's one of Sony's smaller hits from the previous generation (not to mention one that wasn't exactly a critical darling).

It's funny you talk about games, waffle on about Killzone, and then ignore that we've had new information and media on stuff like, Ratchet & Clank, a bigger (and more critically acclaimed) franchise from the previous generation. Speaking of which, in the week around GDC we've had new information or media on several 'big' PS3 titles, along with the announcement of a very exciting new title. There has not been a lack of game updates to discuss in the last week or so if one has been paying attention.

You seem increasingly disingenuous, looking for any avenue of complaint when it comes to Sony. Between announcements and game updates on the sidelines, Sony had a much better week for new information than either of the other platform-holders. They could move the earth, moon and stars, and seemingly you would still strike a negative note.

Anyway, I hate to even discuss this with you. This is a thread about Sony's GDC announcements, not what wasn't announced, or what selective malcontents would have wish to have had announced.

It seems my comments were a bit misplaced in this thread. I came into it late and posted my disapointment with Sony's lack of system selling software.

My disappointment stems from a couple things.
In my mind, this event was great timing (Euro launch) to introduce/update the latest and greatest through leaked videos ("unofficially" or officially). I understand not wanting to give away everything in this event as e3 is around the corner but one or two limited but impressive showings would have been appropriate.

This thought process was enforced by tidbits droped by Sony execs prior to the event.

But as has been said, don't let me rain on your parade guys. I was just expressing my opinion on the event.
 
who stole TheChefO's account and started posting? Motorstorm a flop? :LOL: lol...wow.

TheChefO said:
This thought process was enforced by tidbits droped by Sony execs prior to the event.
Can you elaborate on those tidbits?
 
Similarily, why constantly compare Live! and PSN/Home, they obviously don't share the same roadmap and the priorities in their development are not going the same path.
Yet if they're serious about online gaming, they're features they ought to have, whether Live has them or not. The reason to compare to Live is because Live represents an emobidment of a virtually ideal checklist. If you were to just have a made up checklist of features you think online gaming would benefit from to be ideal, you'd end up describing much of Live. Thus why not compare Home or other online solutions to Live rather than a hypothetical checklist? Especially when Live proves they can be implemented successfully.
So Sony should have had background downloading functioning already because Microsoft did it some 6 months ago already? Why?
No, they should have background downloading because it's silly not to have it, especially when you're reserving so much for the OS. If it took MS a year to add it, that doesn't afford Sony a year to add it. All that means is MS missed the boat. Sony, with the foresight afforded by a rival already a year out there, should have a richer feature list that's not so terribly constricted (or even nigh-on useless factoring in the resource consumption they have for these lack of features). It's not a matter of expecting Sony to have downloading because Live has it. It's a matter of expecting it because Live proved it important and there's no logical reason not to have it. Why is it overlooked? What priorities have Sony had that they thought it better to tie up you PS3 for however many hours downloading something than let you play it while downloading at the same time?
 
After reading through a gazillion pages My Conclusion would be:

Home is a ~600MB Download! Contains several minigames, allows VoiceChat, StreamingVideo+Audio P2P style(which depends on users upload capabilitys), it uses an avatar to represent myself and moving around(now every FAT FUCK and FUGLY GIRLS WILL BE what they ever wanted to be, good looking and famous), i will be capable to upgrade my flat/house/hood/dick whatever, can meet friends in lobbys to chat or play the mentioned minigames and even LAUNCH real games from Home which would close Home and bootup lets say Motorstorm to play online except motorstorm doesnt have multiplay still... kinda sucks because i become unvisible for other Home users because Home must be running so other can contact/interact with me.

That whole Home thing sound nice, but the more i think about it, the less appealing it becomes because it isnt implemented all that well!?


PS: Oh nooeess Phil, your Games gallery has nothing to do witch achievments @all.

Sorry for my rant, but no one even knows how Home handles and is already amazed!?
 
who stole TheChefO's account and started posting? Motorstorm a flop? :LOL: lol...wow.

Stole his account? He does this in every thread that has any news about Sony. He dislikes Sony period.

Motorstorm is a flop? Wow, I have put more time in MS on and offline than any racer in a longtime (Downhill Domination and Burnout took alot of my SP last gen). There is simply no game like it, it defines a genre.
 
And SingStar and Home and LBP were killer applications! Just not killer applications for everyone, you included.

Singstar indeed is very popular in EU, but is this a surprise title? I do not have intimate knowledge of this title but from what I've seen, this title seems doable on ps2.:???:

Home: Sims online. Some people may dig it but I don't see it being the killer app that gets people to drop $500-600. Perhaps I'm wrong but seems too "geek" to be mainstream. (no offense)

LBP: Great Wii title. Good concept and something I would download the trial for on arcade. Not much more though. Again, not a mainstream system seller.


Sony should be trying to capture gamers imaginations with at least one GREAT app. My Motorstorm comment is harsh, but based on the feedback from people that have played the game in detail, I think it's fitting for what the title was supposed to be vs what it ended up being. It was rushed (odd term considering it shipped in Japan last year) and was one of the few potentially flagship IP's on PS3 this year.
 
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Singstar indeed is very popular in EU, but is this a surprise title? I do not have intimate knowledge of this title but from what I've seen, this title seems doable on ps2.:???:

Home: Sims online. Some people may dig it but I don't see it being the killer app that gets people to drop $500-600. Perhaps I'm wrong but seems too "geek" to be mainstream. (no offense)

LBP: Great Wii title. Good concept and something I would download the trial for on arcade. Not much more though. Again, not a mainstream system seller.


Sony should be trying to capture gamers imaginations with at least one GREAT app. My Motorstorm comment is harsh, but based on the feedback from people that have played the game in detail, I think it's fitting for what the title was supposed to be vs what it ended up being. It was rushed (odd term considering it shipped in Japan last year) and was one of the few potentially flagship IP's on PS3this year.

You start by saying that singstar is not a surprise title, then you dismiss the two BIG surprises of the conference, and then...

Sony should be trying to capture gamers imaginations with at least one GREAT app.

Which they absolutely did, even if you don't realise it. I don't think I've ever seen a more unified reception for a next-gen game than LBP received. If ever there was a game that captured the imagination, it is that. If it did NOT capture your imagination, I have to wonder about your passion for games, honestly. (The Wii comment is a bit wtf? at that too).

Home itself was a huge talking point out of the show, simply because it is full of potential and possibilities..that fired a lot of people's imaginations.
 
You start by saying that singstar is not a surprise title, then you dismiss the two BIG surprises of the conference, and then...



Which they absolutely did, even if you don't realise it. I don't think I've ever seen a more unified reception for a next-gen game than LBP received. If ever there was a game that captured the imagination, it is that. If it did NOT capture your imagination, I have to wonder about your passion for games, honestly. (The Wii comment is a bit wtf? at that too).

Home itself was a huge talking point out of the show, simply because it is full of potential and possibilities..that fired a lot of people's imaginations.

I never said Litlle planet isn't a good title. It isn't a system seller though. It is a good quirky game that you download and purchase if the demo is up to snuff.

Home is again not a system seller that everyone can relate to easily.

IMO

Like I said I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll stop posting in this thread. My viewpoint is obviously the minority so if anyone wants to discuss it further, PM me or create a new thread as I don't want to bring you guys down and I'm sincerely sorry if I did.
 
Home: Sims online. Some people may dig it but I don't see it being the killer app that gets people to drop $500-600. Perhaps I'm wrong but seems too "geek" to be mainstream. (no offense)

LBP: Great Wii title. Good concept and something I would download the trial for on arcade. Not much more though. Again, not a mainstream system seller.
You say they intimated surprises, and they did. Or were you expecting these two titles? Whereas KZ would have been a surprise?

And I really think you've a very closed view of the market. That LBP doesn't float your boat, doesn't mean everyone in the world is going to be disinterested. If Sony are trying to reach out, just like Nintendo, another FPS isn't going to do that, is it? Though TBH calling a 'great little Wii Title' I wonder if your response is actually antagonistic :???: What's 'Wii' about it? The visuals? The interface (requires two analogue sticks along with motion)? The physics? The online sharing of content? Or is it a Wii titles because it's something the whole family can play together, and you feel those sorts of titles aren't important to Sony?

Sony should be trying to capture gamers imaginations with at least one GREAT app.
No, what you mean is Sony should be trying to capture your imagination with one great app. Other people's imaginations have been caught with what's been shown. The problem here is your very limited definition of what's great. You'd take an FPS with fantastic graphics and AI and whatnot, over something that's original, flawlessly presented, and offers lots of open scope. That's fine, your tastes and all. But you need to appreciate that in this show Sony weren't aiming for you, but a proportion of the general populous. Going by the response to LBP by the crowds at the show, there's plenty of people who's imagination's were grabbed with it's inventiveness, in a way KZ or GT5 or MotorStorm or MGS can never manage because they're fundamentally not unique, being progressions of existing titles.
 
Quirky game in your opinion, in my opinion it has massive mass market appeal.

The only thing a bit "out there" is the user created content aspect of it, and I can say without fear of making myself look an ass in a year, that it will be heavily used by a great number of people (not me because my levels would suck :LOL: )
 
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