Yes, and hopefully that UE5 demo will be shown tomorrow on the keynote.Maybe rather to this: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/a-first-look-at-unreal-engine-5
Yes, and hopefully that UE5 demo will be shown tomorrow on the keynote.Maybe rather to this: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/a-first-look-at-unreal-engine-5
Yes, and hopefully that UE5 demo will be shown tomorrow on the keynote.
If it already looks great on 9TF hw then imagine a tech demo on a 3080Ti/optane system.
It doesn't sound like the demo requires a PS5 level storage solution anyway, so a faster solution (if it existed) would likely add nothing.
Just because they're streaming assets constantly doesn't mean you need the PS5's storage solution to do it. In fact you can bet your ass it won't, because it's one of UE5's new main features, it needs to work great on every platform (possibly ignoring HDDs)In this video Epic is claiming they're fetching assets from the SSD every frame and more than once on some frames, it does look like it's very dependent on PS5's unique storage.
Theres more to it then transfer speeds, Optane is having other advantages, together with velocity architecture it probably is faster then ps5. SC warp demo was atleast as inpressive if not more.
At some point, they're fetching geometry out of 33 Million Polygon models every 33ms or less. It sure sounds like they're pushing the I/O effective speeds to their limit, and the only thing that comes close to the PS5 in that is the SeriesX.Just because they're streaming assets constantly doesn't mean you need the PS5's storage solution to do it.
Unreal Engine 5 will obviously work on all platforms (like Unreal Engine 4 before it).In fact you can bet your ass it won't, because it's one of UE5's new main features, it needs to work great on every platform (possibly ignoring HDDs)
At some point, they're fetching geometry out of 33 Million Polygon models every 33ms or less. It sure sounds like they're pushing the I/O effective speeds to their limit, and the only thing that comes close to the PS5 in that is the SeriesX.
There's nothing in the PC with that decompression performance, and I doubt the PC will get it until dedicated ASICs come out.
In addition to that, PC can run the demo without any SSD at all by the way, just brute force it with increased RAM + VRAM requirements.We already know Direct Storage reduces the IO overhead of the XSX 4.8GB/s throughput to 1/10th of a Zen 2 core so there's no concern there either.
Regarding the demo, we've had it heavily implied (possibly stated directly) that it runs on both XSX and PC so it's probably a little premature to start claiming it's only possible because of the PS5's SSD.
AFAIK Kraken and BCPack only work on textures that still go compressed towards the GPU, which works on compressed textures to save memory bandwidth?They don't right now, and Kraken/BCPACK are getting you at best 2:1 compression so not using it isn't suddenly going to make a 100GB game balloon to 20TB.
I never said it wouldn't run on the XBX. Despite the fact that Epic didn't say it would.Regarding the demo, we've had it heavily implied (possibly stated directly) that it runs on both XSX and PC so it's probably a little premature to start claiming it's only possible because of the PS5's SSD.
AFAIK Kraken and BCPack only work on textures that still go compressed towards the GPU, which works on compressed textures to save memory bandwidth?
I remember seeing several-terabytes being the fully uncompressed data for a typical 50-60GB game.
I/O overhead for the SeriesX, which is a solution that already has dedicated hardware for decompression. You seem to be implying that Direct Storage makes every decompression+decryption done on 1/10th of a Zen2 core, which it's clearly not the case:We already know Direct Storage reduces the IO overhead of the XSX 4.8GB/s throughput to 1/10th of a Zen 2 core so there's no concern there either.
"Our second component is a high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s," reveals Andrew Goossen. "This is a dedicated silicon block that offloads decompression work from the CPU and is matched to the SSD so that decompression is never a bottleneck. The decompression hardware supports Zlib for general data and a new compression [system] called BCPack that is tailored to the GPU textures that typically comprise the vast majority of a game's package size."
It doesn't matter. Unless you think games on the PC aren't going to be compressed for the sake of pure performance throughput and occupy >200GB on the PC just for those people with 5GB/s+ NVMe drives, all the assets in the game are still coming inside zlibs, most probably with encription to the mix.Yes but GPU's deal with the common compressed texture formats natively so they will remain compressed in the PC space as they are now.
The difference here is the full data compression that the consoles are offering on top of that in the form of Kraken/BCPACK which is on average no more than 2:1.
Nick Penwarden, UE VP of engineering about demo rendering resolution on PS5:It doesn't matter. Unless you think games on the PC aren't going to be compressed for the sake of pure performance throughput and occupy >200GB on the PC just for those people with 5GB/s+ NVMe drives, all the assets in the game are still coming inside zlibs, most probably with encription to the mix.
You still need hardware for decompressing assets at 6GB/s, and that's not something you have on the PC.
Like I said, it doesn't matter that you have 4x Optane drives in RAID0 capable of 20GB/s. The content is still coming compressed and you still need custom hardware for it, and that doesn't exist in the PC space.
Tim SweeneyInterestingly, it does work very well with our dynamic resolution technique as well. So, when GPU load gets high we can lower the screen resolution a bit, and then we can adapt to that. In the Unreal Engine 5 demo we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time.
The truth is that consoles looks nice now, 6 months from release, but will be behind a gaming PC in CPU (cripple Zen2 vs full Zen3), GPU (crippled RDNA2 vs Ampere) and I/O speed (7GB/s NVME SSD are coming this summer) when they will be available. Only I/O looks a bit better, but nothing to brag about.A number of different components are required to render this level of detail, right? One is the GPU performance and GPU architecture to draw an incredible amount of geometry that you're talking about - a very large number of teraflops being required for this. The other is the ability to load and stream it efficiently. One of the big efforts that's been done and is ongoing in Unreal Engine 5 now is optimising for next generation storage to make loading faster by multiples of current performance. Not just a little bit faster but a lot faster, so that you can bring in this geometry and display it, despite it not all fitting and memory, you know, taking advantage of next generation SSD architectures and everything else... Sony is pioneering here with the PlayStation 5 architecture. It's got a God-tier storage system which is pretty far ahead of PCs. On a high-end PC with an SSD and especially with NVMe, you get awesome performance too.
Nick Penwarden, UE VP of engineering about demo rendering resolution on PS5:
Tim Sweeney
The truth is that consoles looks nice now, 6 months from release, but will be behind a gaming PC in CPU (cripple Zen2 vs full Zen3), GPU (crippled RDNA2 vs Ampere) and I/O speed (7GB/s NVME SSD are coming this summer) when they will be available. Only I/O looks a bit better, but nothing to brag about.
2 years from now, at 1/3 life of this console gen ? Well business as usual... Consoles will be in the low range of what a gaming PC can do and I/O will be solved with HW decompression on GPU or SSD controllers if they are any need of it (which I doubt, the requirements doesn'y look anything special)
Rince and repeat with next gen...
I/O overhead for the SeriesX, which is a solution that already has dedicated hardware for decompression. You seem to be implying that Direct Storage makes every decompression+decryption done on 1/10th of a Zen2 core, which it's clearly not the case:
It doesn't matter. Unless you think games on the PC aren't going to be compressed for the sake of pure performance throughput and occupy >200GB on the PC just for those people with 5GB/s+ NVMe drives, all the assets in the game are still coming inside zlibs, most probably with encription to the mix.
You still need hardware for decompressing assets at 6GB/s, and that's not something you have on the PC.
Like I said, it doesn't matter that you have 4x Optane drives in RAID0 capable of 20GB/s. The content is still coming compressed and you still need custom hardware for it, and that doesn't exist in the PC space.
I did interpret it correctly and you're confirming that the decompression alone is taking the equivalent of 3 Zen2 cores. Which neither the SeriesX or the majority of PC gamers can afford to lose.I don't think you're interpreting that article correctly. The IO requirements and the decompression requirements are two different things. They state that decompression is the equivalent of 3 Zen2 cores while IO would be taking up another 2 without Direct Storage - down to 1/10th of one core with it.
I do think they aren't going to be compressed in that way but not for any reasons relating to high speed SSD's, but rather just because they're not at the moment as far as I'm aware.
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If it was compressed on the PC drive in zlib or similar format and needed to be decompressed after it's left the SSD in real time prior to use then I'd agree. But I don;t think that is the case.
They don't kill CPU performance because up until this point they were designed for storage units capable of ~40MB/s which is what you find in current consoles with HDDs. Therefore, all current and older games - console or PC - just use one CPU thread to decompress the data.I think you're mistaken on this. If data were currently compressed on PC drives in this fashion it would essentially make all modern high speed SSD's useless since it would kill CPU performance in anything outside of an 8 core monster.
That'd be nice, yeah.Yes, and hopefully that UE5 demo will be shown tomorrow on the keynote.