Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

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About the processing resources natal takes.
Is it when natal is used for full body tracking that it takes the whole 10~15% of the cpu.
What if we get something like headtracking using like 5 points instead of the 32 points will the resources it takes be lowered.

Headtracking for Fps could be used by both natal and ps eye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWkpdtFZoBE

Im more interested if ubisoft makes Ruse natal compatible because the basics are there if natal can track finger movement.
 
And if we make a mix of it, like for instance using Natal to navigate the Xbox NXE or Sony XMB for a minority report style solution and then picking up a controller to play a game, not sure if there is any "point" to that either.

Now this is something I've been thinking about for a while now while pondering MS' big push for "controller-less gaming" with Natal. Surely it's really going to take a big redesign of the current NXE UI to ensure smooth controller-less Natal operation AS WELL AS standard controller operation. Since I'm not an OS UI designer I cannot even fathom how you'd get something that works excellently for both.

Assuming that's the case, then the only other alternative would be to use Natal for Natal games and pick up a controller for controller-centric titles and/or NXE navigation... if that's the case then what's the point as you'd still have to pick up a controller sooner than later anyways.

Ultimately, I just can't see the appeal of any Natal application beyond it's dedicated software, because unless you're a person who will only play exclusive Natal software on your Xbox360 then you'd be juggling the controller and your hands backwards and forwards, standing up and sitting down so much that it'd be rediculous. NXE navigation with a controller is quick and easy enough, hence why i can't see any significant Natal application being any more than "novel for 5 mins, and then you get tired, turn-off Natal and pick up your controller".
 
About the processing resources natal takes.
Is it when natal is used for full body tracking that it takes the whole 10~15% of the cpu.
What if we get something like headtracking using like 5 points instead of the 32 points will the resources it takes be lowered.

Right now it's difficult to speculate with any certainty. Especially when the 10-15% is a rumor of a spec that has no details.

The currently speculation is that 10-15% could refer to memory + CPU useage. With rumored 50 MB TSR for Natal, that might put actual CPU required at 5%.

Then again perhaps 10-15% really is just CPU. Or 10-15% is with additional bug tracking running on X360. Or any number of scenarios.

I think we'll have a better gauge of where Natal is in relation to a final product at E3. Much can change between now and launch.

Regards,
SB
 
Now this is something I've been thinking about for a while now while pondering MS' big push for "controller-less gaming" with Natal. Surely it's really going to take a big redesign of the current NXE UI to ensure smooth controller-less Natal operation AS WELL AS standard controller operation. Since I'm not an OS UI designer I cannot even fathom how you'd get something that works excellently for both.

I'm not sure there's much you'd have to change. The UI is already somewhat geared to a controllerless control scheme. Panels are large, and natural side to side motions are used to move within categories while up and down motions are used to navigate between categories.

The biggest question mark would be what type of motions will they end up using for media playback. Motions? Motions + Voice? Motion OR Voice?

Assuming that's the case, then the only other alternative would be to use Natal for Natal games and pick up a controller for controller-centric titles and/or NXE navigation... if that's the case then what's the point as you'd still have to pick up a controller sooner than later anyways.

There's no reason against and many reasons for using Natal in addition to the standard X360 controller. And has been speculated quite often, certain games could benefit greatly from the use of Natal + X360 controller (pad or steering wheel or whatever). It's not a simple black and white Natal ONLY or X360 controller ONLY. The fact that Natal is hands free allows it to easily be used with any other controller imaginable.

Ultimately, I just can't see the appeal of any Natal application beyond it's dedicated software, because unless you're a person who will only play exclusive Natal software on your Xbox360 then you'd be juggling the controller and your hands backwards and forwards, standing up and sitting down so much that it'd be rediculous. NXE navigation with a controller is quick and easy enough, hence why i can't see any significant Natal application being any more than "novel for 5 mins, and then you get tired, turn-off Natal and pick up your controller".

Which is the epitome of no-imagination. Then again I shouldn't be surprised considering how much naysaying there was in regards to the Wii motion controls prior to its launch.

That said, what you just related is definitely true when applied to past X360 titles, as MS has recently stated they aren't focused on shoe-horning Natal support into past titles. Nothing would prevent a 3rd part dev from patching it in if they wished, but again I doubt that will happen, so it stands that Natal will probably be mostly useless with existing titles.

However, nothing prevents devs of standard genre games from patching in support for Natal in future titles if they saw some form of benefit. Whether it is gimmicky or not. I would argue that something as simple as head tracking in a FPS/Racing game would be incredibly useful and far from gimmicky. Especially in a Racing game where you can more naturally adjust your view as you are driving. Or for an FPS, being able to perhaps look over, under, or around objects rather than just having a static lean left/right button combo. Perhaps increased adoption of some form of voice control/recognition if a headset isn't required everytime you play a game.

And then you always have the potential for the gimmicky stuff. Generic hand signals in an FPS. Casting a spell using gestures. Turning the page of a book in an RPG or Adventure game. Throwing an object (bonus if Natal can interpret the velocity of arm movement and adjust speed of object in game accordingly). Etc. Gimmicky to the max, and nothing that couldn't be done with a controller. But gimmicks can be fun and draw in additional consumers who may be intrigued enough to purchase a title.

Regards,
SB
 
However, nothing prevents devs of standard genre games from patching in support for Natal in future titles if they saw some form of benefit. Whether it is gimmicky or not. I would argue that something as simple as head tracking in a FPS/Racing game would be incredibly useful and far from gimmicky. Especially in a Racing game where you can more naturally adjust your view as you are driving. Or for an FPS, being able to perhaps look over, under, or around objects rather than just having a static lean left/right button combo. Perhaps increased adoption of some form of voice control/recognition if a headset isn't required everytime you play a game.

And then you always have the potential for the gimmicky stuff. Generic hand signals in an FPS. Casting a spell using gestures. Turning the page of a book in an RPG or Adventure game. Throwing an object (bonus if Natal can interpret the velocity of arm movement and adjust speed of object in game accordingly). Etc. Gimmicky to the max, and nothing that couldn't be done with a controller. But gimmicks can be fun and draw in additional consumers who may be intrigued enough to purchase a title.

Regards,
SB

These are the sorts of interesting uses for Natal that could suffer if the removal of the internal processor is true. Before, as you say, there was no reason not to implement Natal features alongside more traditional games. Depending on the rescources that must be saccrificed to enable a Natal feature i see there possibly being much less support of these sorts of things from devs. It will be a shame for me personally if this is the case as i have more interest in the supplementation of traditional games than the more casual types i expect to see. Ofcourse to MS the Casual stuff is where the money is, and so for them these uses were a sensible sacrifice for lower cost, i will still continue to buy all these traditional games Natal or not.
 
I suppose the choice is, allocate some processing power to support Natal for a peripheral, or throw everything at the normal game. In the example of Forza, would it be better to have 100% processing given over to making it look and play even more fabulous than F3, or have some proceassing power maybe limiting it to F3 performance but allowing for motion control? A lot of this comes down to how much processing impacts the rest of the game. Personally I hope devs go with Natal favouritism. Certainly MS can force it for Forza! How much effort would it be rendering to support a high-quality alongside a Natal mode, and offer users both options? My guess is 'too much'.
 
the 10-15% CPU and 10% memory (which is a bigger hit than the cpu loss) are going to be non issues, simply because they will not use natal in the most games, like Ive been saying all along
A/ party games
B/ fitness games
neither of these should be that mem/cpu intensive

Will halo:reach use natal, if it doesnt then that will be extremely telling
 
the 10-15% CPU and 10% memory (which is a bigger hit than the cpu loss) are going to be non issues, simply because they will not use natal in the most games, like Ive been saying all along.
But the it is an issue, because it means Natal won't be used for anything wonderful. Unless your saying that it wouldn't be used for anything beyond fitness and party games even if there was zero system impact.
 
Developers are going to run into the same problems they did with the Wii: they won't know how to use this new control scheme and so at best they'll try and ape whatever it is sells well on the platform (likewise, unless Sony hits it out of the park with the Sony Personal Thingummy on some project, don't expect much more than 'pointer support' from 3rd parties).
 
But the it is an issue, because it means Natal won't be used for anything wonderful. Unless your saying that it wouldn't be used for anything beyond fitness and party games even if there was zero system impact.

I dont think it would stop wonderful games at all 10-30% less performance wont mean there wont be great games. What is likely is less dev support for smaller additions to our more traditional games, which is what im more interested in personally. It wont make much difference at all for Natal only games.

Some would say PS3 has 10% or so less memory (in the past atleast) and 10% less GPU power but that hasnt stopped it from having great games. The only real negative i can see is it is a good reason for a dev not to consider using it for little things in our normal games.
 
About the processing resources natal takes.
Is it when natal is used for full body tracking that it takes the whole 10~15% of the cpu.
What if we get something like headtracking using like 5 points instead of the 32 points will the resources it takes be lowered.

Headtracking for Fps could be used by both natal and ps eye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWkpdtFZoBE

Im more interested if ubisoft makes Ruse natal compatible because the basics are there if natal can track finger movement.

Yes, I believe it has the capability to zoom into specific areas. It may be quicker to scan a smaller area (after an initial full body scan).

Then again, if the game/title does not require point cloud (They just want to recognize a "pinch" gesture for media playback), there may be cheaper and more efficient way to do so. Since MS pre-announced Natal so early, by the end of this fall, I suspect we will see a healthy supply of alternative solutions.
 
Capcom are reviving an old franchise with natal. Story at g4tv. I am sorry I don't know how to link an article.

Easiest way is just copy and paste the URL.

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/7...oject-Natal-Game-Based-On-Old-Franchise-.html

"What we're doing is creating it from the ground up for Natal, in this case. But it's..." he said, pausing. "How do I describe this...it's created from the ground up for Natal. We're not looking at Natal as 'okay, here's a little Natal gimmick that we've worked into some existing game.'"

So a hardcore game specificly for Natal of a past Capcom franchise? Also, won't be a launch title. They want to take their time to get it right.

Regards,
SB
 
Unless your saying that it wouldn't be used for anything beyond fitness and party games even if there was zero system impact
exactly what Im saying, the reason is due to it not being 100% accurate.
With Party or fitness games this aint so important. But for a FPS or platformer or driving game etc (i.e. normal games) the player would be pissed off if they died when the motion detector fails to pick up the movement it made to shoot,jump,turn left. Have this happen a few times and they just wont play the game
 
SCEE filed for more trademarks: Razor, The Shoot, Wonderbook.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/01/1...-these-names-for-ps3-motion-controller-games/

Maybe Razor, The Shoot, and Wonderbook are their motion controller projects. Sony Computer Entertainment Europe trademarked those names in Europe for use with computer video game programmes.

...

Wonderbook has an extra descriptor. It can also be used for “toys, games and playthings; hand-held electronic games; electronic educational teaching games.”
 
The names sound like shallow, EyeToy-like mini-games though. Need more than one-off mini games, and typing monkeys to generate a new controller momentum.
 
The names sound like shallow, EyeToy-like mini-games though. Need more than one-off mini games, and typing monkeys to generate a new controller momentum.

Damn rigth you are. Anyone else that find the silence remarkable. If they really aim to launch in Japan in March, which was promised in the leaked SEGA document, they should start feeding us with hype information right now.

Microsoft recently made Natal top news on CNN, that´s the way to create hype. :D
 
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