Official Sony PR thread

[mckmas8808]

I guess he hasn't looked at software sales in the last 2 years because XBOX has been dong nothing but gaining momentum.

In the US, they went from 23% market share in 2003, to 34% in 2004....that's a pretty big jump in 12 months.

I think he's referring more to the x360 and it's own momentum. See if the Xbox1 keeps its momentum and the PS2 keeps its momentum then he's saying that the x360 could have a hard time catching on (catching on meaning selling millions before the PS3 is released) and taking a true advantage of coming out first.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

XB1's momentum is coming to a sudden end pretty shortly!

 

[Tap In]

I think he's referring more to the x360 and it's own momentum. See if the Xbox1 keeps its momentum and the PS2 keeps its momentum then he's saying that the x360 could have a hard time catching on (catching on meaning selling millions before the PS3 is released) and taking a true advantage of coming out first.

correct

I took it that he meant X360 would get no momentum upon release, that it would basically come out flat and never get a foothold before PS3 has a chance to catch up.

That's why this is in the SONY PR thread.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well XBOX momentum is XBOX360 momentum.

Its a brand.

Just like PS1's momentum sold 90million PS2's.

So I think saying the X360 will have no momentum, when market share of the XBOX increased 50% in one year, is a pretty weak assessment of the current market.

mckmas: the xbox1 won't keep it's momentum because MS is going to kill it.

I really think it's a no brainer. Current XBOX fanbase + Live + MS Advertising + Christmas + Amazing Graphics = plenbty of "momentum"

 

[eDoshin]

PS2 still sells fairly well .. considering its saturation point is greater than any previous console in a comparable cycle. But it would take an insane number of consoles to be sold at this point for PS2 numbers to register a gain in market share. Selling 50 units of a product when your market penetration is 1,000 is much different than the same 50 when your market penetration is 10,000. I'm actually quite surprised at how well PSOne has done after PS2 came into the market. I wonder who's buying them.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm actually quite surprised at how well PSOne has done after PS2 came into the market. I wonder who's buying them.

eDoshin it's people overseas in the MiddleEast. I remember Sony saying that just last year some country in the MiddleEast was just introduced to the PS2 I believe (it could have been the PS1). But anyway thats why Sony always says that their systems last 10 years.

They know that penetration into certain countries don't happen the same way that they do in Japan, USA, Europe, etc.

I really think it's a no brainer. Current XBOX fanbase + Live + MS Advertising + Christmas + Amazing Graphics = plenbty of "momentum

You are correct but will MS competley take 100% of that same momentum and transfer that to the consumer? Or will it take only a piece of it and in return turn into a small advantage? I can't answer that but that's what the Sony rep was trying to point out.

He didn't say what will happen just that it's not automatic like some people seem to think it is. The Dreamcast and Saturn came out first but that wasn't good enough to defeat Sony. Now I'm not comparing MS to Sega just saying that coming out first does not in anyway mean automatic advantage.

 

[eDoshin]

Gotta also wonder how many of those people who purchased an xbox within the past year will set it aside for 360 .. or will they feel cheated?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's a third the price. Why feel cheated buying a new car for $5000 when the latest model is released at $15000? If XB360 were the same price, they'd rightly be disgruntled. But they'll get a couple years worth of their console for the money they paid. Although suddenly cutting of production of XB does make one wonder if software support will be there for two years? 20 million consoles existing market should still attract some attention I'd have thought.

 

[eDoshin]

I just hope that the next generation of consoles is powerful enough that its lifecycle will last much longer than the current. Granted there is always room for improvement and we would hope (and its a given) that gaming will always progress forward, I would prefer to see great leaps forward rather than incremental improvements. That's why I find it amusing when people bitch about the validity of the killzone realtime claims. I should hope that both consoles can attain those types of expectations .. otherwise why bother.

Anyways, I'm glad I'm not where I was back in the NES days, when I had to save every penny I had just to buy a 150.00 console (don't even remember how much I paid back then). I would only be able to look on with envy at the amazing games that I cannot afford to buy. Its tough even today .. try paying a 3500.00 mortgage in the SF Bay Area and still have enough left over for luxury toys. I'm getting married this summer, so I think this may be my last time I can blow my money on 500.00 dollars worth of toys in one night (hello PSP).

 

[Kolgar]

Well XBOX momentum is XBOX360 momentum.

Its a brand.

Just like PS1's momentum sold 90million PS2's.

That's one way to look at it. But if Xbox's increased momentum early this year resulted from new Xbox purchasers, how are these people going to feel when Microsoft pulls the plug on their system later this year?

Will these same people turn around and buy a 360 anytime soon?

I think PSone owners were ready for a new system - Microsoft's been a bit quicker to replace its first system than Sony was. And while MS is essentially killing the platform, Sony supported PSone long after the release of PS2 - something that probably helped build good will for the brand, especially among casual gamers.

Not sure we're comparing apples to apples here. The situation's not quite the same.

 

[jvd]

On the other hand , the more systems sony sells the harder it is to sell more . For instance a 100million systems is easier to sell than a 150million systems .

So sony may have good momentum but that does not equal growing thier market base . In fact even with stronger momentum going into the ps3 than the ps2 they may not be able to grow thier market .


Ms on the other hand finaly has momentum . They went from a dead stop to selling 20 million units . How much more they can sell with that momentum is up in the air .


For both momentum will only go so far . They will have to agument it with stellar games to grow thier bases

 

[scooby_dooby]

That's one way to look at it. But if Xbox's increased momentum early this year resulted from new Xbox purchasers, how are these people going to feel when Microsoft pulls the plug on their system later this year?

Will these same people turn around and buy a 360 anytime soon?

Well there still over 200 XBOX games in development, so you may not be able to find the hardware, but there will still be plenty of games releases for XBOX owners.

I hear what you're saying though, if the XBOX is just really picking up steam, and they kill it, what effect does that have? I think the fact 200 games are slated for release, kinda takes care of that issue. There's at least another couple years of titles to look forward too, so they shouldn't feel too "shafted"

But I really think we're over-analyzing the situation. Basically XBOX is now an established brand, it's pasted all over TV commercials and advertisements, it's mentioned in TV shows, it's something most people are aware of. It's rapidly gaining market share.

Now that MS has that credibility, as an established brand, they can grow it, and I really don't think they'll have any trouble keeping the momentum going.

They are signing exlusives left and right, and seem to showing alot of drive to create new franchises and cool new games, as long as they do that, coupled with their now established brand, and I don't see how they can not do very well.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hey scooby check this out. This following article explains why supporting a console to its end is a plus.

May 19, 2004 - Sony Computer Entertainment announced today that as of 5/18/2004, the original PlayStation console has managed worldwide shipments of 100,000,000 units. This, according to the company, makes it the first home game console to achieve this feat.


When split across the world, shipments for the PlayStation have been most impressive in North America with Europe coming in a close second. Since release on 9/9/1995, North America has seen shipments of 39,670,000 units. Europe, since release on 9/29/1995, has seen shipments of 39,610,000 units. Japan and the rest of Asia has managed shipments of 20,720,000 units.
The PlayStation system has seen release in a total of 120 countries throughout the world. The company attributes the 2000 PS One redesign and its effect on overseas sales as having contributed to the record hardware units sold, a feat which comes nine and a half years following the PlayStation's original Japanese release on 12/3/1994.

Other impressive figures come from software associated with the system. Worldwide, 7,300 PlayStation titles have seen release (we presume this figure includes multiple versions of the same game released in different territories) totaling 949,000,000 million pieces of software.

And the system continues to sell. 2003 saw shipments of 3.31 million PSOne systems and 32,000,000 pieces of PlayStation-compatible software as the system approaches its tenth anniversary.

With Sony being able to do this, this only helps the same customers feel safe with buying your next console.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Only MS don't want to do that, for prolonging sales of the costly hardware only means taking more loss.

 

[jvd]

With Sony being able to do this, this only helps the same customers feel safe with buying your next console.

yea , ask the average consumer how many psones they sold world wide.... you'd get a i don't know answer . Which really doesn't hold up your conclusion

 

[mckmas8808]

yea , ask the average consumer how many psones they sold world wide.... you'd get a i don't know answer . Which really doesn't hold up your conclusion

jvd what are you talking about. I'm talking about being comfortable about a brand. Its some people in the world that only get Hondas or Toyotas. The point is if Sony holds up to their end of the bargin then Sony should be in a comforable lead come next-gen.

Again people buy what they are used to. If they feel burned by the company's next product then they will jump ship, but if Sony does what they are supposed to do then they should be ok. I think the PLAYSTATION future is in Sony's hands, not anybody's else's.

 

[jvd]

jvd what are you talking about. I'm talking about being comfortable about a brand. Its some people in the world that only get Hondas or Toyotas. The point is if Sony holds up to their end of the bargin then Sony should be in a comforable lead come next-gen.

People buy honda's or toyotas because they are constantly being told by honda and toyota how great the warrentys are . Sony doesn't go around saying how great the quality of the systems are .

People constantly buy sony video game units because of the games on them .

Playstation brand is only as popular as the games on them. Once those games go away or become lower in quality the brand of playstation will also become less popular .

 

[eDoshin]

So why would anyone possibly believe that PS2 is somehow losing momentum? Based on the MAY numbers (and I can only trust the GA numbers), PS2 doubled sales of xbox and more than quadrupled GC. That represents an 8% increase for PS2 and 40% drop for xbox. Seems like PS2 still has lots of momentum left.

 

[Titanio]

Collada Announcements (Siggraph 05)

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I do believe this is the correct place for these:

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/050729e.pdf

COLLADA Joins Khronos Group to Create 3D Authoring Open Standard; Project Initiated by Sony Computer Entertainment for PLAYSTATION(R)3 is now Open for Participation by all Khronos Members; Encourages Strong Tool Chain for all OpenGL ES Platforms

SIGGRAPH 2005

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 1, 2005--The Khronos(TM) Group is pleased to announce that the COLLADA(TM) project has elected to join Khronos to further their work as an open standard under Khronos' open participation process and royalty-free intellectual property (IP) framework. Initiated by Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) COLLADA stands for "COLLAborative Design Activity" and defines an XML-based schema to enable 3D authoring applications to freely exchange digital assets without loss of information -- enabling multiple software packages to be combined into extremely powerful tool chains. Numerous companies have supported and developed COLLADA including 3Dlabs, Alias, Aegia, Autodesk, ATI, Havok, NVIDIA and Softimage.

"COLLADA has already made great progress with strong industry support -- and now the time has come to formalize our standardization process by joining Khronos to ensure that any company can participate in its development and to ensure the standard will always be freely available," said Masa Chatani, Corporate Executive and CTO at SCEI. "SCEI remains fully committed to COLLADA: it forms a key part of the PLAYSTATION3 tools strategy. SCEI has become a Khronos Promoter so that we can fully support COLLADA, OpenGL(R) ES and other Khronos standards."

COLLADA supports all the features that modern 3D interactive authoring applications need to exchange and fully preserve asset data and its feature set is expanding to incorporate technologies such as packaging programmable shader effects and controlling real-time physics engines. This new standard will enable powerful content creation pipelines that can automatically condition and scale 3D geometry and texture assets for real-time playback on a wide diversity of platforms -- and will be developed in a dedicated Khronos working group that any Khronos member will be free to join.

"By designing authoring and acceleration standards in one organization, Khronos can ensure that COLLADA will enable powerful tool stacks for compelling 3D content across all OpenGL ES delivery platforms," said Neil Trevett, president of the Khronos Group, chairman of the OpenGL ES Working Group and vice president of embedded content at NVIDIA. "The availability of the same API across platforms from cell phones to high-performance consoles, combined with state-of-the-art authoring tools, makes OpenGL ES an attractive target for ISV development."

"Alias supports COLLADA joining Khronos and we will be integrating COLLADA into our FBX SDK architecture," said Michel Besner, vice president business development, emerging markets, Alias. "Alias and Khronos share the same vision of making 3D graphics capabilities available any time, any where and we look forward to helping to make that vision come true."

"Autodesk is thrilled that COLLADA is joining the Khronos Group," said Marc Petit, vice president, Autodesk Media & Entertainment, "We thank Sony Computer Entertainment for its leadership in creating a much needed 3D authoring data exchange solution. COLLADA brings definitive efficiencies to customers who implement pipelines featuring both 3ds max and games middleware solutions such as the Unreal Engine from Epic Games. We are looking forward to keep on working actively within the Khronos Group on the development of COLLADA."

"Softimage intends to join Khronos and continue to play a key role in the development and deployment of this important authoring standard," said Marc Stevens, director of research & development and product management at Softimage Co., a subsidiary of Avid Technology, Inc. "Since the beginning of the initiative, Softimage has been a strong supporter of COLLADA as a technology to enable our tools to develop content for a wide variety of platforms -- and so we welcome the broad participation and guaranteed long-term standards availability that Khronos brings to the 3D industry."

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...d=news_view&newsId=20050801005340&newsLang=en

SONY and NVIDIA Become Khronos Promoting Members; Khronos Group Strengthens Key Industry Representation to Ensure Khronos Media Standards Continue to Evolve to Meet the Needs of Embedded Markets

SIGGRAPH 2005

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 1, 2005--The Khronos(TM) Group is pleased to announce that NVIDIA and Sony Computer Electronic Inc. (SCEI) have become Khronos Promoting Members, gaining a seat on the Board of Directors that direct Khronos activities. Khronos is also happy to announce that CoreLogic, GiQuila, Nextreaming and Sasken Communication Technologies have become Khronos Contributing Members to participate in the ongoing development of open, royalty-free embedded media API standards. Also announced today, Harman/Becker has become a Khronos Adopter for OpenGL(R) ES 1.0, which enables them to test their products for conformance with the OpenGL ES 1.0 specification and use the OpenGL ES logo in the automotive market.

Founded in 2000, the Khronos Group is a member-funded industry consortium focused on the creation of open standard APIs such as COLLADA(TM), OpenGL(R) ES, OpenMAX(TM), OpenML(TM), OpenVG(TM) and OpenSL ES(TM) to enable the authoring and acceleration of dynamic media on a wide variety of platforms and devices. All Khronos members are able to contribute to the development of Khronos API specifications, are empowered to vote at various stages before public deployment, and are able to accelerate the delivery of their cutting-edge media platforms and applications through early access to specification drafts and conformance tests. Please go to www.khronos.org for more information.

NVIDIA plays a leadership role in Khronos and is actively promoting numerous Khronos API standards including OpenGL ES, OpenVG, OpenMAX, COLLADA and OpenSL ES. NVIDIA's GoForce family of wireless media processors use the Khronos APIs to deliver a high-performance, visually rich multimedia experience on mobile phones and handheld devices combined with low power consumption and long battery life.

"NVIDIA believes strongly in the power of open standards to create market opportunities and the embedded and handheld industries are today's high growth markets that are demanding advanced media capabilities," said Neil Trevett, president of the Khronos Group, chairman of the OpenGL ES Working Group and vice president of embedded content at NVIDIA. "NVIDIA's Promoter membership will enable us to continue to initiate and influence key Khronos initiatives that are creating significant business opportunities for both NVIDIA and the industry."

SCEI has elected to become a Khronos Promoter to further their leadership role in creating open standards under Khronos' open participation process and royalty-free intellectual property (IP) framework -- including the COLLADA(TM) project that was initiated by SCEI to enable 3D authoring applications to freely exchange digital assets without loss of information.

"COLLADA has already made great progress with strong industry support -- and now the time has come to formalize our standardization process by joining Khronos to ensure that any company can participate in its development and to ensure the standard will always be freely available," said Masa Chatani, Corporate Executive and CTO at SCEI. "SCEI remains fully committed to COLLADA: it forms a key part of the PLAYSTATION3 tools strategy. SCEI has become a Khronos Promoter so that we can fully support COLLADA, OpenGL(R) ES and other Khronos standards."

Khronos Presentations at SIGGRAPH 2005

COLLADA: An open Digital Asset Exchange Schema for the Interactive 3D Industry Wednesday August 3rd, 1-3pm. Hall J, Room 1. More information at: http://www.siggraph.org/s2005/main.php?f=conference&p= exhibitor&s=index. (Due to its length, this URL may need to be copied/pasted into your Internet browser's address field. Remove the extra space if one exists.)

OpenGL ES: "Birds of a Feather" Meeting

Tuesday August 2nd, 2-4pm. Manhattan C, Sheraton Downtown 711 S Hope St, Los Angeles. More information at: http://www.khronos.org/news/events/.

Developing Mobile 3D Applications with OpenGL ES and M3G: Taught by Khronos Members

Tuesday August 2nd, 1:45-5:30 pm. LACC -- Room 502A. Level: Intermediate. This course presents two new 3D graphics APIs for mobile platforms: OpenGL ES and M3G. For more information, please visit: http://www.siggraph.org/s2005/main.php?f=conference&p=courses&s=35&PHP SESSID=aab6a7354db62e66c6793835716a5ceb. (Due to its length, this URL may need to be copied/pasted into your Internet browser's address field. Remove the extra space if one exists.)

Khronos, OpenVG, OpenMAX and OpenSL ES are trademarks of the Khronos Group Inc. PlayStation is a registered trademark of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. COLLADA is a trademark of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. used by permission by Khronos. GoForce is a trademark of NVIDIA Corporation. OpenGL and OpenML are registered trademarks and the OpenGL ES logo is a trademark of Silicon Graphics Inc. used by permission by Khronos. All other product names, trademarks, and/or company names are used solely for identification and belong to their respective owners.

I've always been a bit vague on what Collada is. I'm even more confused now with talk of physics engines and the like.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Dunno if discussion of PR is s'posed to happen in these threads or not, but until told otherwise I'll pollute it!

COLLADA is an open file format for sharing data between applications. At the moment there's no one definitive file format and sharing data between apps, a neccessary part of any development, means converting to different file formats with loss of parts of data where that data isn't supported in the file format, or misrepresentation of data when converted such as scaling variations or inversion of face normals.

The idea is to provide a single file format capable of containing ALL the information. This is extending from just the 3D mesh data to shader data, skeletons etc. And furthermore, it seems to be extending to support other 3D data useful in simulation, though I don't know what specifics these are.

This also extends into 3D offline rendering, not just PS3 and other realtime environements. One of the goals of PS3 announced years ago was the possibility to use in-film assets directly, one example being the model and animations of Spiderman The Movie being transplanted directly into Spiderman the Computer Game. For film tie-ins these grossly reduces content creation costs of such assets - you won't have 2 separate models and mo-cap animations for film and game but can reuse the film assets.

One concern for me is scalability, as a 2 million poly movie model isn't going to run too well in a game no matter what Sony might want us to believe of PS3's power! Also file formats will be astronomical as it's an XML fileformat. I think in-game content will be binary versions exported from the modeller and the COLLADA files themselves will only be used during content creation.

It's certainly a nice idea though, to consolidate all the details pertaining to a virtual model, mesh, properties, shaders, textures, into a single file. I know the fileformats been supported for a year or two on the major apps though initially it was fairly limited. I did ask on this forum some months back if anyone had any news on its development but frm the silences I guess not.