Official Microsoft PR thread

[mckmas8808]

Reseasonalbe explanations yes, but why didn't he get the backlash that Ken K. received? He basically said the same thing that Ken said just without the 1.5 comment.

I'm just trying to get an understanding about the situation. Ken calls X360 a 1.5, while most people didn't even understand what he meant by it. Yet Todd says they are better in every single area except for floating points (where MS says aren't really important) where they said they are the tied. I don't get it where's the backlash?

 

[scooby_dooby]

One's a statement comparing your product to a competitor. It's basically a technical comparison, you can argue his "facts" but at least he's not slandering the PS3, just comparing specs for specs.

Ken's statement was just an underhanded insult, no factual basis, just mud slinging. There was no point, there was no technical basis, it was pure ridicule, and totally uncalled for.

That's the difference.

 

[scooby_dooby]

"We also believe Sony’s PS3 teraflop calculations are wrong, and that their performance is actually closer to ours when we do the math. This gives us greater integer performance, greater memory bandwidth, and greater floating point performance on the GPU with much better utilization."

Is way different than:

"the Xbox 360 is more of an Xbox 1.5 than a next generation console."

one is based on technical comparisons, however flawed they may be, the other is just an unfounded insult.

 

[mckmas8808]

"We also believe Sony’s PS3 teraflop calculations are wrong, and that their performance is actually closer to ours when we do the math. This gives us greater integer performance, greater memory bandwidth, and greater floating point performance on the GPU with much better utilization."

Is way different than:

"the Xbox 360 is more of an Xbox 1.5 than a next generation console."

one is based on technical comparisons, however flawed they may be, the other is just an unfounded insult.

I understand what you are saying, but shouldn't an outright flawed statement be just as bad as what Ken said. To me both are wrong and they should be treated the same. We shouldn't allow people to just lie to us and say, "well at least he lied with technical specs."

Both should be jumped on imho.

 

[scooby_dooby]

well he does preface it with "we believe..."

and really, I don't understand how the GFLOP number is accurate at all, we know the 3.2Ghz cell is somewhere around 210 GFLOPS, and Xenon is 115 or so.

Sony then claims their RSX does 1.8 T-flops on it's own, for a total of 2 T-flops.

Meanwhile MS claims their GPU is actually stronger in FLOPS than the RSX, and they only rated their system a 1T-flop total performance...

so something's not adding up. If the Xenos has better FLOP capabilities than RSX, and the CELL only has about 100GFLOPS more than Xenon, then the total system FLOPS should be very close, or even with the 360 having a higher number since the GPU accounts for 90% of that number.

I don't think we know enough that we can call him a liar, maybe the Xenos does have greater FLOP capabilities than the upcoming RSX, which would make everything he's saying true, right? (in regards to flop comparison)

 

[JasonLD]

well he does preface it with "we believe..."

and really, I don't understand how the GFLOP number is accurate at all, we know the 3.2Ghz cell is somewhere around 210 GFLOPS, and Xenon is 115 or so.

Sony then claims their RSX does 1.8 T-flops on it's own, for a total of 2 T-flops.

Meanwhile MS claims their GPU is actually stronger in FLOPS than the RSX, and they only rated their system a 1T-flop total performance...

so something's not adding up. If the Xenos has better FLOP capabilities than RSX, and the CELL only has about 100GFLOPS more than Xenon, then the total system FLOPS should be very close, or even with the 360 having a higher number since the GPU accounts for 90% of that number.

I don't think we know enough that we can call him a liar, maybe the Xenos does have greater FLOP capabilities than the upcoming RSX, which would make everything he's saying true, right? (in regards to flop comparison)

It is kinda surprising that Microsoft is more obsessed with spec game than Sony. It is MS who said that spec is no longer most important part of next generation console, yet they are furiously defending about perception that PS3 outperforms X360. Since when integer perfomance became important factor, and why there is Xenos vs RSX when we don't know much about RSX besides it is kinda G70 based. Sony is wrong for throwing out useless and bloated numbers, but MS is wrong for throwing out comparison based on assumption...everyone is guilty.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ya, they're one their heels big time, since E3 when PS3 was crowned most powerful console.

It's a big deal when you are launching first NOT to give people the perception that there is something better and more powerful that they should wait for.

So, you see MS doing everything they can to dispell the notion, but it's too late. The mainstream journalists already write their stories and they won't be talking about it again until the fall.

Sony 1 - MS 0

 

[pegisys]

It is kinda surprising that Microsoft is more obsessed with spec game than Sony. It is MS who said that spec is no longer most important part of next generation console, yet they are furiously defending about perception that PS3 outperforms X360.

they might have just said that when they thought the ps3 was going to blow away what they had and now that the systems are going to be so close in performance they want to say we have an upper hand

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm surprised that the interviewer ask this.

Q So far, developers working on both platforms tell us that hardware wise, the PlayStation 3 is more powerful than the Xbox 360.

Sounds like word is getting around. Yet this is Todd's answer.

First of all, I dispute the notion that the PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. We outperform where it matters, and our system is much more balanced, making sure we can actually harness all the power of the system, unlike Sony.

Where it matters? If devs are telling people that what they have programmed for the PS3 is more powerful than the X360 then what else matters?

 

[Tap In]

I'm surprised that the interviewer ask this.

Q So far, developers working on both platforms tell us that hardware wise, the PlayStation 3 is more powerful than the Xbox 360.

Sounds like word is getting around. Yet this is Todd's answer.

First of all, I dispute the notion that the PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. We outperform where it matters, and our system is much more balanced, making sure we can actually harness all the power of the system, unlike Sony.

Where it matters? If devs are telling people that what they have programmed for the PS3 is more powerful than the X360 then what else matters?

i think the key words to the question are so far.

The beta kits have just gone out recently and it's possible that eventually "the word getting around" will be that they are much more equal than most imagined based on paper specs and/or each system IS more powerful in certain areas, some of which may be more important to some devs than others.


As for the questions in general, you have to admit they are not softball questions (too much) considering they come from teamxbox.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Where it matters? If devs are telling people that what they have programmed for the PS3 is more powerful than the X360 then what else matters?

Can we dispel thos whole notion of "dev's say it's more powerful" I've heard that so many time and it's such a load of BS.

Lets count these Dev's:

- Factor 5, after gushing about the goodness of XNA factor 5 changes it's tune and releases a perfectly timed press release stating they are going to PS3 becuase of it's "power", only weeks after E3. Fishy to say the least.

- Then you have Kojima referring to PS3 as the finest dinner. But in the same interview he says this: "I actually haven’t started developing on the new consoles yet. My impression is, for PS3 Sony is aiming for a very high level."

Any more? That's weaksauce, the collective Dev community has not made any comment about which is the most powerful, how could they when no-one has recieved final hardware!?

Any public statements made by dev's are pretty much speculation as far as I can tell from the specific quotes.
-

 

[mckmas8808]

I willing to believe that some devs are talking. Just because we don't know what they said doesn't mean that it isn't being said. With that said it is possible that the final hardware is closer than it is now.

 

[jvd]

I willing to believe that some devs are talking. Just because we don't know what they said doesn't mean that it isn't being said. With that said it is possible that the final hardware is closer than it is now.

We don't know what was said or when and based on what knowledge .

Listening to thier claims is a bit rediclous esp now since we have almost all the specs from both systems . The only mystery is the rsx and even that may not hold true anymore if that info we got a few weeks ago was correct .

 

[JasonLD]

I willing to believe that some devs are talking. Just because we don't know what they said doesn't mean that it isn't being said. With that said it is possible that the final hardware is closer than it is now.

We don't know what was said or when and based on what knowledge .

Listening to thier claims is a bit rediclous esp now since we have almost all the specs from both systems . The only mystery is the rsx and even that may not hold true anymore if that info we got a few weeks ago was correct .

Almost all developers are saying that PS3 will offer little more under the hood than X360, despite what MS is saying....before we say every developers claim is ridiculus, they are actually developing softwares for both consoles and since their aim is little higher with PS3, our only choice is assume that PS3 games will look little better than X360. Would u have cared if developers claim that X360 will be more powerful than PS3? Unless proven otherwise, I am just going to assume that PS3 will be little more than X360, if that is what majority are saying.

 

[Rockster]

Almost all developers are saying that PS3 will offer little more under the hood than X360

You think you can actually back that statement up?

 

[Carl B]

Almost all developers are saying that PS3 will offer little more under the hood than X360

You think you can actually back that statement up?

I don't think it even matters - it would be in a developers best interest to talk up the console on which his games will debut. I just toss all 'on the record' developer statements out the window when it comes to which system is stronger/better.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Almost all developers are saying that PS3 will offer little more under the hood than X360.

Back it up.

That's simply not true. There are hundreds, if not thousands of game developers, I have yet to see ONE that is actually currently developing on both consoles say the PS3 is more powerful, or that they are aiming for higher graphics on the PS3.

Not One. (Kojima stated he hasn't even begun development on either console)

Quit spreading mis-information.

 

[Wicked_Vengence]

Let's also take into account the alpha kits that were shipped.

The 360 was a G5 with and x800 in it.
The PS3 was a G5 with a G70 in it.

Why would Dev's think the PS3 is better. They haven't seen a Cell to use yet, so haven't hit that wall and have the Next Gen card in the system.

Until the Beta kit's shipped, no one has tried the unified architecture or the EDRAM. Now since we already know that the G70 currently can't do HDR & AA, which is the start of what the R520/EDRAM combo is suppose to do without an issue...

 

[gurgi]

before we say every developers claim is ridiculus

I got lost somewhere. Which claims are you refering to exactly?

 

[Carl B]

Let's also take into account the alpha kits that were shipped.

The 360 was a G5 with and x800 in it.
The PS3 was a G5 with a G70 in it.

Why would Dev's think the PS3 is better. They haven't seen a Cell to use yet, so haven't hit that wall and have the Next Gen card in the system.

Until the Beta kit's shipped, no one has tried the unified architecture or the EDRAM. Now since we already know that the G70 currently can't do HDR & AA, which is the start of what the R520/EDRAM combo is suppose to do without an issue...

The Sony dev kits with a supposed G70 had a Cell in them; just thought you'd want to get in the loop.

This whole train of thought seems pointless though. If we think here and now is where which console is most powerful will be determined - I say we just start talkign about somethign else entirely and avoid the fire fight. 8)