nVnews shenanigans.

[Hanners]

I think the moral of the story here is that if you want to make a front page post that isn't meant to signify anything in particular, that put your disclaimer to that effect on the front page, and not hidden away in the forums, to avoid confusion.

The real problem here isn't what Mike's intent was, I certainly don't believe he went out to mislead or misrepresent anyone. The problem is that people check the front page of a site for news. And on the front page of a video card website you look for video card news. The danger is that people will see the cards involved, look at the story and think 'Wow, the 5950 Ultra totally slaughters a 9800 Pro in UT2004!'. Putting the note he made in the forum thread on the front page would have placated everybody and made this a non-issue.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Simple solution: Don't go there.

People really are not missing anything 8)

 

[Bjorn]

I think the moral of the story here is that if you want to make a front page post that isn't meant to signify anything in particular, that put your disclaimer to that effect on the front page, and not hidden away in the forums, to avoid confusion.

The real problem here isn't what Mike's intent was, I certainly don't believe he went out to mislead or misrepresent anyone. The problem is that people check the front page of a site for news. And on the front page of a video card website you look for video card news. The danger is that people will see the cards involved, look at the story and think 'Wow, the 5950 Ultra totally slaughters a 9800 Pro in UT2004!'. Putting the note he made in the forum thread on the front page would have placated everybody and made this a non-issue.

I think it's pretty obvious that the news post is about improvements thanks to a CPU upgrade. Not the graphics card.

The Athlon 64 appears to performing as expected when looking at the Unreal Tournament 2003 botmatch benchmark results below

Though i agree that it's not the best idea to use different graphic cards if you want to highlight differences caused by the CPU.

 

[stevem]

Which site gave the GF4 Ti4200 best graphics chip nod of 2002? I can't remember but I *think* it was Bjorn3d. Ahh, the fab process of speed binning truly was the best graphics chip brought to market in '02.

Anyone know if Scooter(?) still runs the show there. He kinda creeped me out when Bjorn turned to Nvidia after Rendition faded...

 

[Quitch]

Wow, how did this thread grow? Someone says "Look at this article... I don't like it." Before you know it, nvnews staff are having a hissy fit, and digi is throwing around "nvidia biased" accusations.

Talk about mismanaged

 

[digitalwanderer]

Talk about mismanaged

Sorry, it's spring break and my birthday is tomorrow....I just ain't feeling very managerial lately, and it feels damned good.

I just didn't like how that graph looked, period. I felt it was misleading and inaccurate information, period. I was just looking for input about the graph being on their frontpage and if any others felt that was very misleading, period. It may/may not be another link in the chain that I see as the downhill slide in quality of reporting at nVnews, but it definately felt like it was related to that; period. (I like ending my sentences like this, period. )

I didn't mean it as a bash thread of nVnews, if I wanted to make a bash thread of nVnews you would KNOW that was my intent. (Really, does anyone think of me as the subtle type? Subtle as a sledgehammer. )

It wouldn't have mattered if that graph was on nVnews' front page or Beyond3D's front page, I would have had the same issues with the graph itself and the information and how it was presented.

 

[Bjorn]

I just didn't like how that graph looked, period. I felt it was misleading and inaccurate information, period.

It could be misleading if you take a quick look at the graphs it without reading the text. But i how is it inaccurate ?

 

[Sazar]

I think the moral of the story here is that if you want to make a front page post that isn't meant to signify anything in particular, that put your disclaimer to that effect on the front page, and not hidden away in the forums, to avoid confusion.

The real problem here isn't what Mike's intent was, I certainly don't believe he went out to mislead or misrepresent anyone. The problem is that people check the front page of a site for news. And on the front page of a video card website you look for video card news. The danger is that people will see the cards involved, look at the story and think 'Wow, the 5950 Ultra totally slaughters a 9800 Pro in UT2004!'. Putting the note he made in the forum thread on the front page would have placated everybody and made this a non-issue.

he said it was for his personal system and he was putting up the numbers to compare between his OLD system and his NEW system...

I don't see why mike is obligated to spoon-feed people the info and say no no... this is exactly what I meant it to be blah blah blah...

www.nvnews.net

have a look @ the post he has up? look under muya's news announcenments since its been there a couple of days...

keep in mind that muya's news posts concern everything from gfx cards reviews/cpus/mobo/memory and the like...

 

[digitalwanderer]

It could be misleading if you take a quick look at the graphs it without reading the text. But i how is it inaccurate ?

Well, the fact that it doesn't really accurately compare anything for one...

 

[Bjorn]

It could be misleading if you take a quick look at the graphs it without reading the text. But i how is it inaccurate ?

Well, the fact that it doesn't really accurately compare anything for one...

It doesn't pretend to compare the GPU's though so i see nothing wrong with it. The entire news post is about upgrading the CPU in a system and that's very clear imo.

And besides, doesn't it accurately compare a Athlon XP/Radeon 9800 vs a Athlon 64/FX5950 ?

 

[Quitch]

Well, I don't think there was any misleading as such, the names of the cards were clear for all to see, but it was a big waste of time which told you nothing, especially the Halo conclusion he draws.

 

[Sazar]

Wow, how did this thread grow? Someone says "Look at this article... I don't like it." Before you know it, nvnews staff are having a hissy fit, and digi is throwing around "nvidia biased" accusations.

Talk about mismanaged

fyi I am not staff...

only muya and rage are... and neither of them has really thrown a hissy fit...

here is a list of the forum leaders there

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showgroups.php?

the issue I have is a vendetta a few people seem to have and continually strive to attack a forum and its members... keep in mind there was a similar issue here wrt kyle and hardocp bashing...

I have pm'd digi... I have not heard anything back... it was the least I could do personally...

 

[Sazar]

Well, I don't think there was any misleading as such, the names of the cards were clear for all to see, but it was a big waste of time which told you nothing, especially the Halo conclusion he draws.

undoubtedly the gfx card is likely to make a difference with the r3xx core vis a vis the nv3x core wrt ps2.0 in halo... however the gist of what he said was ut2k3... big improvement... not so in halo to which he says he's looking forward to nextgen cards...

how can anything malicious or misleading be inferred ? that I can't understand...

 

[Quitch]

Kyle was bashed for his articles, only his articles and nothing but his articles. While conclusions were drawn about him, they were drawn with reference to his articles. Frankly, considering the material being put out at the time, and the fact that people used that site to make purchasing decision, he and his site got everything it deserved.

When he content improved, the remarks about the site vanished. Hardly a sign of personal vendetta's against the site.

 

[Bjorn]

Well, I don't think there was any misleading as such, the names of the cards were clear for all to see, but it was a big waste of time which told you nothing, especially the Halo conclusion he draws.

What's wrong with the Halo conclusion ?

 

[Hanners]

I don't see why mike is obligated to spoon-feed people the info and say no no... this is exactly what I meant it to be blah blah blah...

He isn't obligated to do anything, it's his own site, he can post whatever he likes.

You just have to be aware of how people can interpret (or indeed misinterpret) anything you write there. And if you're going to make a disclaimer anyway, why not put it on the front page along with the actual story?

 

[PatrickL]

Sazar i am sorry but i think there is a misunderestanding. I have absolutely no vendetta against anyone at nvnews or rage3d.

I just posted my feelings about what i read in the forums lately.

 

[Sazar]

I don't see why mike is obligated to spoon-feed people the info and say no no... this is exactly what I meant it to be blah blah blah...

He isn't obligated to do anything, it's his own site, he can post whatever he likes.

You just have to be aware of how people can interpret (or indeed misinterpret) anything you write there. And if you're going to make a disclaimer anyway, why not put it on the front page along with the actual story?

IF volt and digi were to post the graphs by themselves (which they did) YES it looks naf... but mike did not... the article starts off with cpu description and pictures of his cpu and then segues to a couple of tests he ran for shits n giggles...

 

[Sazar]

Sazar i am sorry but i think there is a misunderestanding. I have absolutely no vendetta against anyone at nvnews or rage3d.

I just posted my feelings about what i read in the forums lately.

its all right m8... perhaps a little emotional crud popping outta my mouth...

just was hoping that I coulda resolved this by way of pm but there appears to be no response so hence I trudge on unwillingly

 

[Quitch]

Well, I don't think there was any misleading as such, the names of the cards were clear for all to see, but it was a big waste of time which told you nothing, especially the Halo conclusion he draws.

What's wrong with the Halo conclusion ?

He goes from a Radeon 9xxx Pro to a GeForce FX, a card which is known to have inferior capabilities when it comes to PS2.0. He then concludes that the equal framerate means you can't improve there till next gen, failing to take into account that only a move to a new processor and a 9800 XT with no change would have shown that. Even then you could have concluded it was the CPU not the GPU that led to the boost.