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Or...
If the competition cannot get a product out that soundly defeats your 3 generation old one why bother making something new
If for you ATI didn´t did it (they did and with a large margins). Nvidia didn´t did it either.
I'm sorry I simply have no idea what you are trying to say.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
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Or alternatively, if you can't compete with the competitor that is putting out new products at lower prices and still getting better margins, then you might as well just keep chucking out the same 3 year old inventory and hope you can con the customers with marketing while you figure out what to do.
There's no point spending time and money on new products if the competition can force you to drop prices with their better yields/margins and mean you're still making a loss on the new products too. Might as well save the R&D and keep making losses on the old stuff.
That is a nice theory BZB, but the facts don't agree. To bad about that. It is so annoying when pesky facts get in the way of bias isn't it.
The 9800GTX+ was competitive performance wise with 4850 renaming it did not change that, it did not get slower simply because 250 is a smaller number than 9800.
If you want to talk margins that is well and good, but there is not a plethora of information in any case. Nvidia may in dire straits, but if so AMD is in worse. I was personally very happy with AMD's new GPUs as they give hope that AMD will not go bankrupt, but the CPU end is not holding up their end very well.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
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I was pointing out the invalidity of your theory with another (just as invalid) theory of my own. Nvidia has been forced to cut it's own margins to match the margin advantages AMD has with it's smaller chips, without Nvidia having the benefits of those smaller chips themselves.
What's the point of Nvidia releasing newer products that they also won't be able to make margins on because of having to cut prices to compete with AMD? So instead, they just remarket the same tired old range under a different name.
The 9800GTX+/250 may have been competitive - but only because Nvidia was forced to knock £100 off the price. They effectively had to drop a higher tier card down in price to match the performance of the 4850, and there's no point in Nvidia doing that to themselves again.
Silent_Buddha
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Wow, I never knew the 4870 was actually SLOWER than the 8800 GTX, 8800 GTS...or even the newer 2 generations old 8800 GT.
Hmmm...not seeing many benchmarks coming to that conclusion either, although I suppose I could cherry pick something.
Regards,
SB
That's a tad flawed isn't it? Since when is "competing" defined by margins (which we have absolutely no hard info on anyway). Last I checked, competing is still about price/performance and RV770 definitely isn't anything special compared to G92b in that regard. So Sxotty has a point.
How is that relevant? G92b and RV770 are around the same size right? So his point that Nvidia's "old" tech is viable enough to go against AMD's best stuff still stands. Again, I don't understand the "new chip" obsession.
The GTX260 vs RV770 is a much better comparison for AMD if you want to Nvidia-bash.
Hum?
HD 4870 now available for €149 in Euroland
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12477&Itemid=1
Best price/performance than that it´s simply impossible.
You forget RV740trinibwoy said:
It will be better then 9600GT and 9800GT. And RV740 in xxx,OC,PCS versions should be competitive with 9800GTX+. So I could say that Nvidia is in deep problems starting from April 6 that is 3 weeks from today. (not even counting with RV790 that will put pressure on Nvidia high-end and drop Nvidia margins and price heavily again)
And what's preventing Nvidia from following with it's own price drops. It's especially funny how you think AMD's price drops only hurt Nvidia's margins......
And yeah, RV740 will put more pressure on Nvidia. But how much pressure is completely dependent on if/when they can muster a response and in what timeframe. So unless you have have that info there's no telling how significant RV740 will turn out to be.
But you might very well be right considering Nvidia has just put up its brand new 100 series of chips.
And yeah, RV740 will put more pressure on Nvidia. But how much pressure is completely dependent on if/when they can muster a response and in what timeframe. So unless you have have that info there's no telling how significant RV740 will turn out to be.
But you might very well be right considering Nvidia has just put up its brand new 100 series of chips.
v_rr that is rather the point of competition is it not?
So according to your link you have the rebrand to thank for the price drop. Sounds like a swell deal to me.
I went to newegg the cheapest 4870 is 154 cheapest 4850 is 120, cheapest the GTX 260 is 179 so I say the 4870 is definitely trouncing it is price/performance. The 250 isn't listed there at the moment but the cheapest 9800TX+ is 119. That seems competitive with their 4850 listing to me.
So according to your link you have the rebrand to thank for the price drop. Sounds like a swell deal to me.
I went to newegg the cheapest 4870 is 154 cheapest 4850 is 120, cheapest the GTX 260 is 179 so I say the 4870 is definitely trouncing it is price/performance. The 250 isn't listed there at the moment but the cheapest 9800TX+ is 119. That seems competitive with their 4850 listing to me.
You forgot that HD 4870 is competing with GTX260. And yes it will hurt Nvidia more the ATI because Nvidia is under lots of pressure in price. Let's see they made GTX260 to sell for 450$ initially. They drop their price 6-7 times and now is going to 170$ levels.
ATI just did 2-3 price cuts so it´s going on schedule. What I'm saying is that Nvidia is cutting over and over again prices that wasn't supposed to happen. ATI is going according to the plan they made. You can see this in Nvidia margins drop in finances in Q3/Q4. On the other side ATI margins where Up for the same Q3/Q4 and that means that RV770 is going as planned. ATI is manipulating Nvidia for most time in price. By G80 times Nvidia did that with ATI. Now there is a hole new story....
Also RV790 now takes the place of RV770 in the 200$ and 300$ price tag. That means that they don´t loose margins because they have a new product to fit there. Nvidia on the other side only have to drop GTX2xx prices again to fight RV790 losing higher price tags again.
You tell me. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for Nvidia for the next 3/6 months. This massive renaming from Nvidia tell you just that.trinibwoy said:
Right now AMD is in a much more immediate need for cash than Nvidia.
Since Nvidia is able to continually reduce prices and force the competition to do the same for so long with basically the same architecture, it's safe to say that AMD isn't happy with the GTS 250's lower price tag. Not one bit.
If the RV770 was that much more competitive than G92 in the real-world market, AMD wouldn't need to lower prices, but instead would rather rake in the extra profit margin by holding on to launch prices, much like Nvidia did when they held the performance/high-end advantage with the 8800 GTS 640MB, against the R600, or when RV670 launched at lower price points -but also lower performance- than the original 65nm G92.
I'm talking about tecnology to consumer. But AMD get arab money recently.
Also Nvidia is trailing AMD in losses. All 2008 end in loss and 2009 for sure will be worse then loss.
Rv770 kept it's price stable for long time. But you know that we are in crisis.INKster said:
High-end (250$++) nowadays is reduced to almost zero. ATI and Nvidia, as Intel have to adapt to this crisis.
As you see RV740 is perfect for 2009 (fast and cheap)
I commented on that mismatch a few posts back.
Sure, if the plan is to lose money.
Yeah, it would be nice to have inventory levels for old G9x parts. They said they will cut back significantly on wafer starts in Q1 but they could well have a quarter's worth of inventory to clear still. Analysts may be margin obsessed but the way I see it playing out right now AMD is making a serious grab for market share and Nvidia is scrambling accordingly to protect it.
Rv770 kept it's price stable for long time. But you know that we are in crisis.
High-end (250$++) nowadays is reduced to almost zero. ATI and Nvidia, as Intel have to adapt to this crisis.
As you see RV740 is perfect for 2009 (fast and cheap)
Really ? "Perfect" ?
Then why launch a RV790 at the same time ? Could it be because there's someone making money above the RV770 level of performance/price segments and currently it isn't AMD ?
By definition, if there's someone making money, then the high-end isn't really dead, now is it ? In fact, despite the traditional low volume, it generates a nice profit per unit sold, unlike their cheaper cousins. Their buyers are typically the sort of people that don't get burned as much by an economic crisis as the mainstream product consumers.
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