Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 Reviews

[Picao84]

High margins on a cheap N8 based GA102. Why do you think 3080 based on the same die launched at $700? No such luck with AD102 I'm afraid (and AD103 based 4080 kinda highlights this already).

The latter in that post meant AD103 and AD104. The difference in price between GA102 and AD102 is much smaller than GA104 and AD104.

 

[PSman1700]

a company who naturally tries to extract as much value of it's products as they can

Imagine that being something thats rare

Great, but how do they get themselves out of the pricing mess now?

Sink prices.... 4090 is very reasonable priced, its the 4080's thats abit of a problem and NV seemingly is re-working some things it seems, the 4080 12gb was the most critized so far and that got 'unlaunched', it didnt even launch to begin with but ok.

 

[Cyan]

1200W and it's ehm 8 years old I think? This "problem" hasn't appeared today, anyone who was seriously into PC GPUs has been used to their power needs for quite some time now.


Exactly. Nobody is forcing everyone to get the top most possible configuration. Lower models may not provide much in terms of perf/dollar compared to previous generations but they still do provide better perf/watt.

your first sentence shows how much times have changed. I remember all the backlash against the RX 290 and RX 290X 'cos their power consumption was 290W, not to mention the Vega GPUs for the same reason. Those were reasonings to which I agreed back in the day tbh.

 

[Clukos]

 

[Picao84]

Imagine that being something thats rare

I used the word "naturally"....

 

[DegustatoR]

The latter in that post meant AD103 and AD104. The difference in price between GA102 and AD102 is much smaller than GA104 and AD104.

Again - no, it's not. GA102 cards launched starting from $700, AD102 is so far ONLY available at $1600. The higher margin GA102 parts (3080Ti+) were just that - higher margin parts. GA104 launched at $500 while AD104 was supposed to launch at $900 - that's way less than $700 to $1600.

With AD102 the only part available thus far is 4090 - and you'd assume that if Nv would be able margin wise to do this they'd re-use AD102 for 4080 at least, especially since that one is $1200 now. The fact that they preferred to make a separate AD103 die for this card highlights how expensive 4N process really is.

The whole "Nvidia is greedy" talk is baseless. Or do anyone here really think that Nvidia of all parties have managed to miss the end of ETH mining?

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Unlaunching The 12GB 4080​

The RTX 4080 12GB is a fantastic graphics card, but it’s not named right. Having two GPUs with the 4080 designation is confusing.

So, we’re pressing the “unlaunch” button on the 4080 12GB. The RTX 4080 16GB is amazing and on track to delight gamers everywhere on November 16th.

Unlaunching The 12GB 4080

16GB GeForce RTX 4080 on track to delight gamers everywhere November 16th.

www.nvidia.com

wuuuut ?

Definitely remember those "So what, you think people will walk into a store and buy a 4080 12Gb and not realize what they're getting?" takes to defend the naming scheme. Aged like milk on a radiator.

 

[Picao84]

Again - no, it's not. GA102 cards launched starting from $700, AD102 is so far ONLY available at $1600. The higher margin GA102 parts (3080Ti+) were just that - higher margin parts. GA104 launched at $500 while AD104 was supposed to launch at $900 - that's way less than $700 to $1600.

With AD102 the only part available thus far is 4090 - and you'd assume that if Nv would be able margin wise to do this they'd re-use AD102 for 4080 at least, especially since that one is $1200 now. The fact that they preferred to make a separate AD103 die for this card highlights how expensive 4N process really is.

The whole "Nvidia is greedy" talk is baseless. Or do anyone here really think that Nvidia of all parties have managed to miss the end of ETH mining?

Right, because Nvidia didn't predict that RTX 3000 series were going to be sold for way more than MSRP and they didn't ride the crypto wave... RTX 3000 prices were a marketing stunt, they knew fully well that they were not going to be sold nowhere near MSRP. GA104 was artificially launched at 500 with prices often above 700. GA102 was supposed to be 700 and it was often not less than 1200. Coincidence that now they want to launch with similar hikes? I think not.

 

[DegustatoR]

Right, because Nvidia didn't predict that RTX 3000 series were going to be sold for way more than MSRP and they didn't ride the crypto wave...

If they would have they'd never ever launched either 3070 or 3080 at the prices they were launched on. Up until the end of 2021 they basically didn't make anything off these inflated prices - beyond what they've made on volume of sales.

RTX 3000 prices were a marketing stunt

Okay. I've bought my 3080 for that "stunt" btw.

 

[Subtlesnake]

Right, because Nvidia didn't predict that RTX 3000 series were going to be sold for way more than MSRP and they didn't ride the crypto wave... RTX 3000 prices were a marketing stunt, they knew fully well that they were not going to be sold nowhere near MSRP. GA104 was artificially launched at 500 with prices often above 700. GA102 was supposed to be 700 and it was often not less than 1200. Coincidence that now they want to launch with similar hikes? I think not.

If I remember right Eth didn't start spiking until December 2020. I was able to get a 3080 on eBay shortly after launch for a few hundreds dollars over list.

 

[Picao84]

If they would have they'd never ever launched either 3070 or 3080 at the prices they were launched on. Up until the end of 2021 they basically didn't make anything off these inflated prices - beyond what they've made on volume of sales.


Okay. I've bought my 3080 for that "stunt" btw.

And? I bought my RTX 3070 at 570, not much more than 500, but still could see the absolute chaos in pricing.

Otherwise, if you are right, than PC gaming is pretty much on its dead kneel as these prices are not sustainable.

 

[T2098]

With AD102 the only part available thus far is 4090 - and you'd assume that if Nv would be able margin wise to do this they'd re-use AD102 for 4080 at least, especially since that one is $1200 now. The fact that they preferred to make a separate AD103 die for this card highlights how expensive 4N process really is.

The whole "Nvidia is greedy" talk is baseless. Or do anyone here really think that Nvidia of all parties have managed to miss the end of ETH mining?

Samsung's 8N process is really at its core an 'enhanced' 10nm-class node, and TSMC's 4N is really a 5nm-class one.

In addition there were reports that NVidia had negotiated a deal with Samsung where they were only paying for working dies on 8N, both from a functional unit standpoint and from a parametric standpoint, potentially making their overall cost even lower than the table below, which likely assumes that the customer pays for the wafer, not just the good dies.

Given that AD102 and GA102 have nearly the same die size, a rough guess as to the ratio of costs between AD102 and GA102 would just be the ratio of their wafer costs, which is glossing over even more potential cost savings from 8N due to only paying for 'good' dies as mentioned above:

Looking at a ~2.8x cost increase per die, and even that might be charitable, given that Samsung 8N costs have likely gone down considerably since that chart was produced, or at the very least, gone down more than TSMC 5nm class nodes have, which are still hugely in demand.

Obviously the manufacturing cost of the GPU die is only one part of the entire BOM, but still likely the single largest line item.
As @DegustatoR mentions, there's more to this here than just corporate greed, making giant chips on bleeding edge nodes isn't cheap.

 

[DegustatoR]

And? I bought my RTX 3070 at 570, not much more than 500, but still could see the absolute chaos in pricing.

Nice stunt you have there then. Prices were in chaos because of crypto miners. Don't believe me? Why aren't 30 series cards still selling at inflated prices then if it is all a "stunt" and orchestrated by Nvidia?

Otherwise, if you are right, than PC gaming is pretty much on its dead kneel as these prices are not sustainable.

There are mightily fine GPU products below $900 of the now cancelled 4080/12.
This weird fixation on most top end products is what's killing PC gaming (not really btw as most people seem to still be buying 3060s and such).

 

[PSman1700]

Nice stunt you have there then. Prices were in chaos because of crypto miners. Don't believe me? Why aren't 30 series cards still selling at inflated prices then if it is all a "stunt" and orchestrated by Nvidia?


There are mightily fine GPU products below $900 of the now cancelled 4080/12.
This weird fixation on most top end products is what's killing PC gaming (not really btw as most people seem to still be buying 3060s and such).

PC gaming has been dead since the 80's, it cannot die twice right

 

[doob]

your first sentence shows how much times have changed. I remember all the backlash against the RX 290 and RX 290X 'cos their power consumption was 290W, not to mention the Vega GPUs for the same reason. Those were reasonings to which I agreed back in the day tbh.

Serves as a nice contrast with the hypocrisy and bias around these "recent" times originate from. The incessant obsession about it that for obvious reasons weren't a problem back in the GTX 480 days because the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Maybe unlaunch the 4080 16GB's price too?

This seems to be somewhat of an outlier so far, but what a drastic difference in basic raster performance here between the 4080 16 and 4090. You are losing a hell of a lot by saving $400.

View attachment 1665778654412.png

 

[Picao84]

Nice stunt you have there then. Prices were in chaos because of crypto miners. Don't believe me? Why aren't 30 series cards still selling at inflated prices then if it is all a "stunt" and orchestrated by Nvidia?


There are mightily fine GPU products below $900 of the now cancelled 4080/12.
This weird fixation on most top end products is what's killing PC gaming (not really btw as most people seem to still be buying 3060s and such).

Crypto miners were a very handy excuse, I give you that, but like Subtlesnake said before crypto came into the the scene the prices were already above MSRP. If you go back to the original thread, the picture that prices were a stunt didn't take long after launch. Day one of the launch and every single card other than FE had a significant markup already. Would you like to present proof that Nvidia didn't benefit from it? Just recently EVGA just closed the door on the way out. If AIBs were enjoying such healthy margins on top of Nvidia cost why did they leave?

Because they have to clear stock for 40 series, doh.

Nothing to do with fixation with top end, but with cost of 4060 and below. If you say that Nvidia has no choice but have this pricing, then that surely must be true for lower tier products as well? If they have to sell AD104 for 900, then AD106 is going to be 500 and above and might even see AD107 at 300.

 

[Subtlesnake]

Crypto miners were a very handy excuse, I give you that, but like Subtlesnake said before crypto came into the the scene the prices were already above MSRP. If you go back to the original thread, the picture that prices were a stunt didn't take long after launch. Day one of the launch and every single card other than FE had a significant markup already. Would you like to present proof that Nvidia didn't benefit from it? Just recently EVGA just closed the door on the way out. If AIBs were enjoying such healthy margins on top of Nvidia cost why did they leave?

Yes, due to pent up demand. But prices would likely have stabilised much quicker without the crypto boom. EVGA left likely because of the pricing crash that came in the wake of the crypto one, and the return to much worse margins.

Nothing to do with fixation with top end, but with cost of 4060 and below. If you say that Nvidia has no choice but have this pricing, then that surely must be true for lower tier products as well? If they have to sell AD104 for 900, then AD106 is going to be 500 and above and might even see AD107 at 300.

Even the 3050 launched at $250, so AD107 for $300 would be pretty expected. The sub $300 GPU market has been a wasteland for a long time.

 

[Picao84]

Even the 3050 launched at $250, so AD107 for $300 would be pretty expected. The sub $300 GPU market has been a wasteland for a long time.

RTX 3050 at 250 is GA106, not GA107. GA107 RTX3050 was 200.

 

[PSman1700]

Nvidia is going to charge what people are willing to pay. The recent scrapping of 4080 12g shows that people werent willing to pay for that one, NV most likely keeps on an eye on those things.