Dancing and convincing losers to give you their money for taking your clothes off and pretending to be interested in them isn't exactly getting being forced to be fucked up the ass, is it?
nVidia becoming so desperate for sales that it reverts to...
- Thread starter K.I.L.E.R
- Start date
Correct me if I am wrong, but AFAIK this didn't take place in Nvidia's boot but was a private party outside the convention. I am not going to go into deep underlying moral issues, but what exactly is people's problem with this event?
It the fact that the women they hired has removed her top? Forgive me for not seeing a huge moral distinction between a babe in tight revealing closes that geeks oogle over and a babe with somewhat less closes that geeks oogle over.
PS. Do I need to motion the playboy parties many, many corporations pay for?
It the fact that the women they hired has removed her top? Forgive me for not seeing a huge moral distinction between a babe in tight revealing closes that geeks oogle over and a babe with somewhat less closes that geeks oogle over.
PS. Do I need to motion the playboy parties many, many corporations pay for?
funny how a tech forum can bring up some quite amusing threads, no?
a question to Sage: do you believe a young person who has never been exposed (at least 'seen', not just 'been told of') to the various forms of 'corrupting temptations' of the society ("easy" money, incl. from exploiting his/her body, drugs, gambling, etc) has a better chance of realizing the implications of those practices, and would be capable of making the right decisions (i.e. such decisions that would possibly stop him/her from taking the full negative effect of those practices) when he/she take ahold of his/her own life as an adult?
matrox, about those girls who neglected what they were told about being a "dancer": do you believe that if they hadn't been exposed to that "temptation" at that time and place those girls wouldn't have went for the next easy/fun money opportunity they came across later on, simply because they had been raised (apparently) somewhat naive in some aspects?
the question is: to be shielded from the various forms of social hazards, or to be able to face and handle them? and the latter takes being well aware of the problem. being very aware of something means knowing it, even to the point of having experienced it. i don't mean to sound too much Nietzsche-like, but human life is pretty much about being able to make the right decisions for yourself. if you can't do that then you'd be of little help to anybody else.
oh, btw, i, too, agree with Tag's and Althornin's latest posts.
a question to Sage: do you believe a young person who has never been exposed (at least 'seen', not just 'been told of') to the various forms of 'corrupting temptations' of the society ("easy" money, incl. from exploiting his/her body, drugs, gambling, etc) has a better chance of realizing the implications of those practices, and would be capable of making the right decisions (i.e. such decisions that would possibly stop him/her from taking the full negative effect of those practices) when he/she take ahold of his/her own life as an adult?
matrox, about those girls who neglected what they were told about being a "dancer": do you believe that if they hadn't been exposed to that "temptation" at that time and place those girls wouldn't have went for the next easy/fun money opportunity they came across later on, simply because they had been raised (apparently) somewhat naive in some aspects?
the question is: to be shielded from the various forms of social hazards, or to be able to face and handle them? and the latter takes being well aware of the problem. being very aware of something means knowing it, even to the point of having experienced it. i don't mean to sound too much Nietzsche-like, but human life is pretty much about being able to make the right decisions for yourself. if you can't do that then you'd be of little help to anybody else.
oh, btw, i, too, agree with Tag's and Althornin's latest posts.
Interesting topic...I agree with Russ (and everyone else with the same opinion.)
I've about had it with the "victim" profile that says people are mindless droids utterly at the mercy of government laws and economic forces. It's the BF Skinner paradigm that we're all rats in a maze without the facility to develop and use an internal compass.
People have to be responsible for themselves--it's mind-numbing how many people want to make someone else, something else, anything else, responsible for the decisions they make in life.
As for the stripping, whoring, et al....people make conscious choices to engage in these behaviors (Slavers do still exist of course, but in vastly diminished numbers and I'm not talking about them.)
It's a huge pretense that women who become mired in these pits are snared innocently. Most begin this kind of life because it's "easy money" they think. If they are charmed and allured by idiot pimps it's generally because they, like almost all human beings, show a propensity for self-deceit.
But the fact is there are so many societal taboos against women engaging in this kind of activity--not surprisingly much of it comes from feminist organizations--that only a tiny minority of women choose it as a "lifestyle choice." And that's a good thing, I think.
As far as the suggestion that the only thing "wrong" with a life of stripping and prostitution and drug abuse is that prostitution is illegal in many places--well, while we're at it why not extend the same logic to all vices and simply abolish all laws and revert to complete anarchy? Let's tear down the speed-limit signs and empty the prisons and just let everything flow "naturally"....*chuckle* After all, this line of thought goes, nothing is really "wrong" in and of itself--it's just that "laws" make it wrong. And thus we see the inversion of logic that undermines the very historical basis for all law in a civilized society.
Do we really want young women going to college to obtain PhD's in whoredom?....
*chuckle* I will admit that when I was in school I often wished such was the case--but did discover the odd fact that most college lassies were not incensed by the act itself but mortally offended if it was ever suggested they were "for sale"...
In strip clubs and the like the women use the men and the men use the women and that's pretty much the way it's always been. It's more of a mutual use and abuse club type of situation--the women spend their self-respect, self-control and dignity--the men spend their money as well as what the women spend. I certainly don't think that in the end what either group gets out of it is worth the price of admission--but that's their choice as adults to make, isn't it? Societal taboos exist as warning indicators along the path of life, but as always there will be those who heed them and those who do not. But pretending that people who aren't born into slavery as strippers and whores, or who aren't compelled by the governments they live under to become strippers and whores against their wills, are people who "can't help" being strippers and whores is....crazy, I think.
OK, now what was the topic?....
I've about had it with the "victim" profile that says people are mindless droids utterly at the mercy of government laws and economic forces. It's the BF Skinner paradigm that we're all rats in a maze without the facility to develop and use an internal compass.
People have to be responsible for themselves--it's mind-numbing how many people want to make someone else, something else, anything else, responsible for the decisions they make in life.
As for the stripping, whoring, et al....people make conscious choices to engage in these behaviors (Slavers do still exist of course, but in vastly diminished numbers and I'm not talking about them.)
It's a huge pretense that women who become mired in these pits are snared innocently. Most begin this kind of life because it's "easy money" they think. If they are charmed and allured by idiot pimps it's generally because they, like almost all human beings, show a propensity for self-deceit.
But the fact is there are so many societal taboos against women engaging in this kind of activity--not surprisingly much of it comes from feminist organizations--that only a tiny minority of women choose it as a "lifestyle choice." And that's a good thing, I think.
As far as the suggestion that the only thing "wrong" with a life of stripping and prostitution and drug abuse is that prostitution is illegal in many places--well, while we're at it why not extend the same logic to all vices and simply abolish all laws and revert to complete anarchy? Let's tear down the speed-limit signs and empty the prisons and just let everything flow "naturally"....*chuckle* After all, this line of thought goes, nothing is really "wrong" in and of itself--it's just that "laws" make it wrong. And thus we see the inversion of logic that undermines the very historical basis for all law in a civilized society.
Do we really want young women going to college to obtain PhD's in whoredom?....
*chuckle* I will admit that when I was in school I often wished such was the case--but did discover the odd fact that most college lassies were not incensed by the act itself but mortally offended if it was ever suggested they were "for sale"...In strip clubs and the like the women use the men and the men use the women and that's pretty much the way it's always been. It's more of a mutual use and abuse club type of situation--the women spend their self-respect, self-control and dignity--the men spend their money as well as what the women spend. I certainly don't think that in the end what either group gets out of it is worth the price of admission--but that's their choice as adults to make, isn't it? Societal taboos exist as warning indicators along the path of life, but as always there will be those who heed them and those who do not. But pretending that people who aren't born into slavery as strippers and whores, or who aren't compelled by the governments they live under to become strippers and whores against their wills, are people who "can't help" being strippers and whores is....crazy, I think.
OK, now what was the topic?....
WaltC said:
That isn't a fair comparison, same as the paedophilia one earlier.
If prostitution was legal, and managed by some big-time government deal or something, or AT LEAST legally unionised, then what would the problem be?!
Tearing down speed limit signs would obviously result in problems, because people wouldn't be able to respond to some things fast enough, and the higher the speed limit, the less dense your traffic can be - which unfortunately doesn't happen; traffic tends to be almost as dense, which results in personal injury, death... Bad is very apparent.
Same with 'tearing down the prisons', then we'd have murderers (taking someone's life -> Definitely wrong) and rapists (Forcing sex -> Definitely wrong) on the streets. Again, the bad is very apparent.
And besides that... nobody said prostitution is wrong because it's illegal... the illegality results in bad things happening to prostitutes. THAT is wrong. After all... if prostitution is wrong, then should we ban all sex? Or how about banning all services which demand any kind of charge? Heh, next time you need a plumber, how about you pay him in nothing but attention and time, rather than money?
Do we really want young women going to college to obtain PhD's in whoredom?....
...and as I said previously, prostitution and stripping, though they aren't morally wrong, are still degrading and low professions. Most people wouldn't want to go down to that level to make a living, but some will - and why punish them for it?
Tagrineth said:
The government is an extremely poor business manager---remember Mustang Ranch in Nevada?--yep, Uncle Sam was *in the prostitution business*--made a royal mess of it, too... As to the former owners of the Mustang Ranch, the ones the US government took it from, some fled the country and others went to jail--because of fraud, tax evasion, etc. Yep, such a "healthy" environment... No matter who ran it--it stunk (in more ways than one, apparently.) After a year or more of operation the government closed it down and is now selling the property.
Also, I find the idea of a "unionized" whorehouse pretty darn funny...
I can see it now--News Bulletin:"The International Escort Union is on strike at Carnegie House in New York! Effective as of 4 p.m. today there are no whores in the bordellos at New York's most presigious escort center. Citing a dissatisfaction with hourly wages and benefits--including the lack of a coffee break every two hours--the escorts at Carnegie House have formally voted to strike. Last year the Escort Union attempted a similar strike which was largely muted by the management bringing in replacement workers across picket lines. This year the Escort Union is shooting higher:
"What we want is what they promised us three years ago! We want our full "Aids and Incurable Venereal Disease Pension Plan"! There will be no more 69's at Carnegie until the management signs contract addendum 399 and implements this retirement package!" proclaimed Shirley Bludgebottom, a Level One whore employed at Carnegie for the last 13 years."
Somehow, I don't think this would work very well...
The morals of the situation would depend on who you ask...some think stripping and prostitution is as wholesome as girl scouts selling cookies, others think the Devil himself is the head pimp...
Trust me when I say there's no clear consensus on this matter from a moral standpoint and probably never will be.As it is, I think you'll find that in most cities today where prostitution is illegal the police don't put high priorities on rounding up whores... They have much more pressing matters to occupy their time. If you don't think so then check out the Yellow Pages in any phone book in a reasonably sized city and you'll see lots of "Escort services" listed in bold print...
The question of punishment is eminently debatable, as many would suggest that "making a living" as a whore (male or female) is a distinct form of self-punishment, which often entails penalties from activities associated with the practice that far outweigh any legal penalties a whore is ever likely to suffer. As you say, it's a "degrading and low" profession, hence society is right to do its best to discourage people from making it a "career choice." On the other hand, opportunities abound for making career choices of a more self-edifying nature.
What it comes down to is a matter of choice and self-determination, as always. Aspire to be whore when you grow up? Fine, but understand the demands of the job before you ever get started... Right?
(I think I've exhausted my interest in the topic...
)Hellbinder
Banned
It is always interesting to read these kinds of threads. It really points out what peoples belief systems are.
Sex is supposed to be a beautiful thing shared between Two *married* people who love each other. IMHO, Anything else is pushing it.... and Pornography, Prostitution etc etc is flat out over the line. I think that anyone who honestly stops to think about Marriage, Family, Community etc.. Would be hard pressed to make a case otherwise. Dont even try to bring the practices of 3rd world cultures to try to make a case otherwise. Becuase then you will have to defend all the genetic defects they endure, as well as out of control Aids, Vinerial diseases etc.
But i can see now that there are a Vaste number of you that are going to completely disagree with me on this.
Please try to be gentle with the Flaming that will ensue on me now 8)
Sex is supposed to be a beautiful thing shared between Two *married* people who love each other. IMHO, Anything else is pushing it.... and Pornography, Prostitution etc etc is flat out over the line. I think that anyone who honestly stops to think about Marriage, Family, Community etc.. Would be hard pressed to make a case otherwise. Dont even try to bring the practices of 3rd world cultures to try to make a case otherwise. Becuase then you will have to defend all the genetic defects they endure, as well as out of control Aids, Vinerial diseases etc.
But i can see now that there are a Vaste number of you that are going to completely disagree with me on this.
Please try to be gentle with the Flaming that will ensue on me now 8)
Hellbinder
Banned
Thats the Problem. Right and Wrong do not need a consensus. Morality lives above the whims of the people, it always has. People who think that Prostitution is as Wholesome as selling Girl scout cookies are mentally disturbed, or just sick.
I think its pretty common sense what things are blatantly immoral. How can anyone *honestly* argue against these basic principles of life?
Honor your father and your mother.'
You shall not murder.'
You shall not commit adultery.'
You shall not steal.'
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
These have been around for more than 3,500 years. The basic concepts of these permiate nearly all of human Culture. i mean seriously. You dont have to be a religious Zealot to accept the basics of what makes the world work smoothly.
So which of these does stripping or prostitution defy?
(Beyond the old any sex with anybody but your wife (even before you get married) is adultery argument)
(Beyond the old any sex with anybody but your wife (even before you get married) is adultery argument)
Doomtrooper
Veteran
All of this idealology is based on religion..almost everything in this thread actually when looking at it.
If two adults want to hop in the hay, big deal...there is other more important things in the world to worry about.
Now that I said my piece, exit stage left.
Hellbinder[CE said:
Please put the bible away before continuing this discussion.
And please point to ONE SINGLE ANIMAL other than Homo Sapiens which observes any kind of *marriage* rite. I'd love to see you try it... because it's a purely human, purely religious view.
I don't particularly plan to marry, ever, period. UNLESS I do somehow get myself so attached to a guy that I can't refuse him... but once again, I digress, and I'd better stop before I say something I shouldn't.
Tag:
But there are many animals which do 'mate for life'.
In response to Hellbinder: I've a sneaking suspicion that sex did, in fact, exist before marriage.
I've certainly got no problems with people who want to wait until they are married to have sex:
Waiting until married
But there are many animals which do 'mate for life'.
In response to Hellbinder: I've a sneaking suspicion that sex did, in fact, exist before marriage.
I've certainly got no problems with people who want to wait until they are married to have sex:
Waiting until married
Mariner said:
True enough, I suppose.
But I should probably go back and re-arrange my argument a little bit... a much better counter would have gone something like this:
Hellbinder[CE said:
No, sex is supposed to be a carnal act between two people with the intent of procreating. =)
Note that humans are only one of two species which has sex for any other reason besides procreation... the other one being Dolphins.
Actually, here in the Netherlands (where prostitution is legal) there is a union for prostitutes. The legalisation works very well in keeping the women safe and drug free. Also, it ensures that their customers don't come in contact with the criminal circuit.
The union works to strengthen their legal position, and helps the women with watching after their health.
So, in reality it works very well
.WaltC, your arguments dont make any sense...
Please, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT WOULD OCCUR?
Please dont revert to any stupid analogies or "slippery slope" constructs (as Hellbinder loves to do).
Just lay out the problems as you see them, without the use of "*chuckles*" to imply things are foolish with no logical basis.
Thanks.
Simply put, WHY IS PROSTITUTION WRONG?
Thats the question i want answered. And no, Hellbinder, I wont accept your religeous beliefs as a valid argument.
I can think of many things that would improve with the legalization of prostitution, and just about none that would not. I think criminalizing people for a victimless crime is retarded. And if the prostitution is between two consenting adults - then it IS victimless.
I also vote that the Mods should split this thread - one part remaining here, and this very interesting morality/legalization/etc debate going intot he "General" section of the board, if the Mods can do that.
Please, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT WOULD OCCUR?
Please dont revert to any stupid analogies or "slippery slope" constructs (as Hellbinder loves to do).
Just lay out the problems as you see them, without the use of "*chuckles*" to imply things are foolish with no logical basis.
Thanks.
Simply put, WHY IS PROSTITUTION WRONG?
Thats the question i want answered. And no, Hellbinder, I wont accept your religeous beliefs as a valid argument.
I can think of many things that would improve with the legalization of prostitution, and just about none that would not. I think criminalizing people for a victimless crime is retarded. And if the prostitution is between two consenting adults - then it IS victimless.
I also vote that the Mods should split this thread - one part remaining here, and this very interesting morality/legalization/etc debate going intot he "General" section of the board, if the Mods can do that.
DaveBaumann said:
That's because you had to have been dancing in the middle of the dance floor.
She discoed by me a few times. At first I thought it was the booze fooling my eyes, but the hounds of drooling guys following her the second time around made me realize it was all real.I jokingly asked Brian Burke if NVIDIA paid the girl to remove her top (didn't know she was a porn star at the time) and he laughed and said, "no no, we wouldn't do that."
Bummer I didn't get to meet you at the party. Mike later told me he saw you, but I lost Mike when he took a sip of his drink, then went to the bathroom and never came out.
