Nvidia Ampere Discussion [2020-05-14]

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Man from Atlantis, May 14, 2020.

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  1. ToTTenTranz

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    Planned obsolescence makes money.
    This isn't exclusive to nvidia, obviously.
    AMD kind of tried to pull a dirty one with the Zen3 motherboard compatibility episode from last year, and Intel used to not give a fuck and change sockets every year to make sure every new CPU had to be bought with a new motherboard.
     
  2. DegustatoR

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    I thought that AMD said that they have it during RDNA2 launch?
    It is also somewhat plausible from benchmarks which show exactly the same results in games with and without SAM - which points to driver not using the RBAR functionality in such cases.

    Driver can provide only 256MB access on a system which allows full VRAM access on h/w level. This is transparent to the s/w anyway.

    Yeah, NV has planned for adding RBAR with vBIOS updates for years obviously. Just screams "planned" to me.
     
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  3. ToTTenTranz

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    They planned for the current gen cards to get a vBIOS update, and for the previous-gen cards to not get one.
    That is planning for obsolescence on the previous cards.

    But you can choose to believe poor and paragon-of-consumer-friendliness nvidia is doing all they can to keep their RTX20 owners from ever having to upgrade to RTX30 cards.
     
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  4. trinibwoy

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    Nvidia claimed the benefit of the larger pool is that transfers can be larger or run concurrently to reduce the time it takes to transfer data to the GPU.

    Does anyone know where exactly this is managed? Doesn’t seem like the game is doing anything different.

    That’s a strange interpretation of “planning”. I suppose they’re not releasing BIOS updates for Pascal cards either to force people to upgrade.
     
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  5. Dampf

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    Well mostly it's just a 5-10% performance increase, you can hardly say it's planned obsolescence. If it would be, Turing would lack all the important next gen features like DirectStorage and DX12U support.
     
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  6. DegustatoR

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    Yeah, they've planned this for centuries. It is so obvious, just like the whole 5600XT launch a year ago - that was planned back in the 90s too.
    As I've said already this has more to do with what AIBs are/were planning than NV because it is AIB's task to produce the new vBIOSes for their cards - and BIOSes for their motherboards for that matter.
    I'm sure that NV would be happy to add RBAR support to all their GPUs starting with Fermi or so but alas that's not something which they can do on their own. Which is a pity tbh.
    Arguably though the slower the GPU is the less likely it is to be limited by CPU-to-GPU communication and more likely it is to be limited by actual GPU rendering. So maybe they've decided that it doesn't worth it.
     
  7. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Could be, but I don't remember hearing such
    I'm more inclined to believe that it just makes no difference in those titles, unless someone actually finds source for the blacklist.

    Can it, or are you just assuming it can? I mean, there's relatively little information available on the matter currently, and since the size is defined at boot, I wouldn't be so sure driver could just artificially limit it.
     
  8. Frenetic Pony

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    That's 5-10% for now though. Consoles have had such memory access for a good while, this means this gen the shaders can compile the same sort of optimizations consoles get from that memory access for pc. So we'll be seeing better performance uplift down the line.

    That being said, Turing was on the drawing board many, many years ago. It's not necessarily a case of planned obsolescence, it could easily be that there just wasn't time to add it.
     
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  9. trinibwoy

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    I think there’s a simpler explanation. Nobody bothered to look at this before AMD did. The bloody feature is over 10 years old.
     
  10. DegustatoR

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    Tried finding where I've heard / read it but alas I can't. Maybe I'm wrong on this one.

    The feature is / was basically useless in older titles. Either made no improvement or lead to a performance loss.
     
  11. Kaotik

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    Apparently it was AMD who together with HP suggested the feature to PCI-SIG originally. They also mention that AMD worked on this already in 2015 (on Linux)
    https://hardwaresfera.com/en/articulos/resizable-bar/
     
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  12. pharma

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    Not doubting what he claims though his background (pc engineer) suggests supporting links would help his case. I did see somewhere many companies contributed back when the feature was incorporated into the PCI-E spec.
     
  13. Krteq

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  14. pharma

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  15. ToTTenTranz

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    It's nothing short of impressive how this only came up in a real implementation 12 years later. It really puts into perspective how slow some changes can happen and for how long had been in development some of the features we're seeing in recently launched products.
    This year, someone might be making a request to the PCI-SIG consortium that won't have any impact until 2030. My first thought on that would have been "how the hell do we know if there'll even be a PCI-SIG 10 years from now?!".
     
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  16. DegustatoR

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    It came into a real implementation 12 years later because it didn't help much if at all in these 12 years since its inclusion into the standard. Now there are some gains in titles which aren't optimized properly for PC NUMA.
     
  17. ToTTenTranz

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    https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-sam-smart-access-memory-performance/2.html

    I'm seeing some pretty old games with measurable boosts in performance, like Civ VI from 2016.
    It's definitely something that could have made a difference much earlier than late 2020.
     
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  18. DegustatoR

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  19. HLJ

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    I have heard this fallacy a gazillion times, but every time I asked for evidence...we enter the conspiracy realm and I suspect this will be the case here too.
    I think the last fallacy that got debunked was the "planned obsolence for Kepler"....which were utterly debunked in several articles and made the fallacies posters scurry and run for cover.

    I bet this will be no different, but here goes:

    Proof of "planned obsolence"...that is not just fanboi feelings?
     
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  20. DavidGraham

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    Some DL benchmarks, A100 40GB SXM4 is 3 times faster than V100 32GB, across a variety of benchmarks, the A100 PCIe version is 2.8 times faster, while the 3090 is 1.5 times faster.

    https://lambdalabs.com/gpu-benchmarks
     
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