NV40/R420 Face-Off - Interesting debate over at FiringSquad

[kemosabe]

Couldn't Dave's talk about the similar die size implicate that the missing ASIC actually might be a higher performance part. Say, 20 pipes ?

Sounds good to me if true

Shhh.....that's R480. 8)

No, seriously, I think it's quite clear that Dave is referring to a mid-range solution between RV380 and R420. I still find that the performance gap between those two has become rather large to be adequately filled by a single part. My question now is, does X600 = RV380 or will it be this new mid-range ASIC? Likely the former, since I don't think there's an 8-pipe part ready to replace the 9800 Pro yet.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15790

 

[Evildeus]

Isn't X600 = Rv380 and X300 = Rv370? :?

 

[Bjorn]

No, seriously, I think it's quite clear that Dave is referring to a mid-range solution between RV370 and R420. I still find that the performance gap between those two has become rather large to be adequately filled by a single part. My question now is, does X600 = RV370 or will it be this new mid-range ASIC? Likely the former, since I don't think there's an 8-pipe part ready to replace the 9800 Pro yet.

Ok, then i'm guessing that he meant that since the die size of the R420 and R360 was the same, it would be better to make a new 8 pipe chip to replace the R9800 Pro/XT since it would be cheaper to produce. They might also be able to reach pretty high clock rates with that kind of product .

 

[kemosabe]

Isn't X600 = Rv380 and X300 = Rv370? :?

LOL, thanks ED, I see I referred to RV370 in my last post rather than RV380 (I've edited that bit).

If X600 is RV380 then there should be a X700 designation coming in the summer or fall.

 

[Evildeus]

Np

 

[kemosabe]

Ok, then i'm guessing that he meant that since the die size of the R420 and R360 was the same, it would be better to make a new 8 pipe chip to replace the R9800 Pro/XT since it would be cheaper to produce. They might also be able to reach pretty high clock rates with that kind of product .

Agreed. So putting it together:

X700 series to replace the 9800 Pro in the $200-$250 segment.
8 pipes
256-bit memory bus
0.11u process
Core/memory clocks ~ 400-450/400-450?
Based on R420 core (and assuming some features left out to save on transistor count)?
Overall performance in the 9800XT ballpark, though somewhat faster in bandwidth-limited situations.

Dave, Joe, anything quacky about those wild guesses?

 

[Mariner]

Well, do we know for sure that RV380 is nothing more than a PCI-E version of RV360?

I think everyone agrees that an 8-pipe chip is needed for the mid-range segment of the market. I'd speculate that an 8-pipe chip with 128-bit memory interface (slower, I know) with the chip clocked at around 550MHz and memory around 400MHz+ would be a good start. Obviously the lack of 256-bit memory interface would reduce performance somewhat in AA/AF but games are becoming more shader-limited so this would still provide pretty good performance at a low price to ATI.

Of course such a chip could also be produced with either 128/256-bit memory interfaces to fill different market segments. A 256-bit memory interface version would have performance a fair bit higher than the 9800XT, I expect, and a bespoke chip would be better than the X800SE we've heard about.

 

[Bjorn]

.. and a bespoke chip would be better than the X800SE we've heard about.

Especially since the yields has to be pretty bad for the XT/Pro to create a lot of 8 pipe X800 SE's. And Dave indicated the current yields are causing problems for the SE version which i'm guessing means that they're good and not many chips have more then one non working quad.

 

[Stryyder]

.. and a bespoke chip would be better than the X800SE we've heard about.

Especially since the yields has to be pretty bad for the XT/Pro to create a lot of 8 pipe X800 SE's. And Dave indicated the current yields are causing problems for the SE version which i'm guessing means that they're good and not many chips have more then one non working quad.

Does that mean we will see a nice PRO/GT price war as they will be able to reduce the price of the PRO if the Yields are good??

 

[kemosabe]

iXBT.com: A question about your future line. Without going to details, will this line fully substitute the actual RADEON 9800-9800XT or will it just oust them down thus taking a higher position?

Rick Bergman: Right now we're planning to leave RADEON 9800 PRO as it is, and it will certainly be below the new line. And we'll shift down RADEON 9600XT, RADEON 9600, and RADEON 9600SE, taking the latter to the low-end sector.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/ati-canada-1504-ati-all.html

The way things seem to be shaping up...

X800XT = enthusiast
X800Pro = high end
9800 Pro = performance (to be replaced in the fall with R420 derivative)
X600XT = 9600XT (RV380 PCI-E) for the mainstream
X600 = 9600 (RV370 PCI-E) for the OEM low end (and, after partial castration, basis for upcoming DX9 IGP core ?)
X600SE = 9600SE
X300 = 9200
X300SE = 9200SE

Edit: a few modifications