NPD October 2007

[Johnny Awesome]

But..

Surely by your logic the PS3 should have an astronomical attach rate right...?

... ... ... ... *cough*... ... ... *whisper* ... ...

Oh wait..

No, because most PS3 owners are playing better games on their X360.

Listen, everyone can throw their pet theories out about this and that, but the bottom line is that the NPD data speaks for itself - X360 software sales are excellent, even with a smaller userbase than PS2. Not as good as PS2 in its hayday, but X360's hayday has yet to arrive.

 

[betan]

Fixed

I was talking about this year.

Well going by sales or reviews that still puts the 360 at the top of the heap with their software line-up.

I realize that it is a personal opinion, but the general perception puts 360 titles in a league of their own.

I don't know about general perception, but undeniably great software sales.

Wait a second!
Are you suggesting that the only good game for Xbox 360 this year is Halo 3?

No.

I really do not see the point in making a statement like that.

The point was in my previous reply to 22psi.

When Laa-Yosh says the 360 has the "best software lineup", it has nothing to do with game of the year.
This is the NPD thread. He's talking about appeal to gamers.

So was I (then) as my comparison still stands.

If you don't get that, then there's no reason to make useless remarks here.

Didn't know you'd reserved the rights to useless remarks.

Ratchet and Clank has always been a youth-friendly franchise IMO that though excellent in its production values, has not ever been a franchise I have played. I think it introduced an important front for the PS3 (kid-friendly, high-quality), but right now I believe the PS3 demographics are very different in composition than were the PS2 demographics at this stage of the game.

I agree that R&C sales aren't much of a surprise given the demographics, but it bugs me that people consider the game a "kiddie game" without playing any of the ones in the series.
It may be because of bad marketing or bad demo (in case of RCF).

I don't think Uncharted will get the sales it 'deserves' either to be honest.

Certainly will not. Unfortunate but true.

Just be realistic, R&C is a type of game that is sold most in the holiday season and October is not exactly a traditionally busy month.

It would be nice if some of the console supporters (from either side) could provide sales data regarding Deadlocked for comparison.

 

[archangelmorph]

No, because most PS3 owners are playing better games on their X360.

Sure!! Because most PS3 owner's own 360s too..

Listen, everyone can throw their pet theories out about this and that, but the bottom line is that the NPD data speaks for itself - X360 software sales are excellent, even with a smaller userbase than PS2. Not as good as PS2 in its hayday, but X360's hayday has yet to arrive.

Nobodies disputing that.. I'm simply contenting with your arguement that the 360 software sales are the way they are purely because the hardware was priced so high..

A statement made with no reference to any other factors (like what ever other platforms these consumers own for instance) & thus, taken on it's own is nothing more than flawed logic given that the PS3's sales performance to date contradicts it..

& if you really believe that most PS3 owners are spending all their money buying 360 games then that surely means that the console's hardware price point clearly has nothing to do with it's software sales successes further indicating the failure of your initial arguement..

If anything it points towards the idea that maybe it has more to do with a wider library of software which appeal to the "core gamer" demographic than anything else..?

 

[liolio]

No, because most PS3 owners are playing better games on their X360.

Listen, everyone can throw their pet theories out about this and that, but the bottom line is that the NPD data speaks for itself - X360 software sales are excellent, even with a smaller userbase than PS2. Not as good as PS2 in its hayday, but X360's hayday has yet to arrive.

OT I feel like the european market show more brand fidelity, Europeans seems more relunctant to jump in.
I think they will follow the US trend if editors change their view on ps3.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Sure!! Because most PS3 owner's own 360s too..


Nobodies disputing that.. I'm simply contenting with your arguement that the 360 software sales are the way they are purely because the hardware was priced so high..

A statement made with no reference to any other factors (like what ever other platforms these consumers own for instance) & thus, taken on it's own is nothing more than flawed logic given that the PS3's sales performance to date contradicts it..

& if you really believe that most PS3 owners are spending all their money buying 360 games then that surely means that the console's hardware price point clearly has nothing to do with it's software sales successes further indicating the failure of your initial arguement..

If anything it points towards the idea that maybe it has more to do with a wider library of software which appeal to the "core gamer" demographic than anything else..?

I never said anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out that people that can afford to buy consoles for $400 when they launch can afford to buy games for them.

Each console will sell better at lower price points along its own demand curve. That doesn't mean that demand for PS3 at $399 will be as great as demand for X360 at $399. Not at all. That's where the other factors come into play.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The $399 PS3 and the price cut was known on Oct.18, most who are price sensitive and the target of the $399 unit would just wait for it. Before that it was the $600 80GB bundle and $500 60GB, basically nothing changed from the last month.

As for Ratchet, obviously the current owners of PS3 don't contain many kids that is the main audience of the franchise. However it's important to have such a quality game in the portfolio when a demand arises.

I really think *most* who are price sensitive will wait until $299 or $250.

Still, I expect PS3 to be around 350-400k next month.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Joystick:
Overall sales for the brand (PSP, PS2 and PS3 hardware and software) were up 39% since last October to $353.4 million (not bad... considering the PS3 wasn't out last October)
PSP sales were up 120% year-over-year from last October (amazing what a price drop and redesign will do)
The PS2 is still chugging along and "remains the best-selling gaming platform ever released" (that's right... none of the other systems have yet caught up to its five-year, 100-million-unit head start).

I can't believe you're whining because they are debunking the PR.

That PR is one of the stupidest things I've read in ages. Good on 'em for mocking it, it deserves all the laughs it gets...what else is PR good for really?

There's nothing wrong with saying the emporer has no clothes if that happens to be the case.

 

[RobertR1]

As for Ratchet and Clank, I'm sort of surprised that others here are surprised at its performance. Is it a game many of us own for example? Just because a title is excellent, doesn't mean it has the appeal for the core ownership base at the moment. Ratchet and Clank has always been a youth-friendly franchise IMO that though excellent in its production values, has not ever been a franchise I have played. I think it introduced an important front for the PS3 (kid-friendly, high-quality), but right now I believe the PS3 demographics are very different in composition than were the PS2 demographics at this stage of the game. My primary interest in the title is honestly related to the technology and the engine!

Problem is though Carl that if you dare mention such a thing before the actual sales figures are out, you'll have the usual suspects jump down your throat and we know how that ends up.

 

[RobertR1]

Seriously ... the PS3 has gotten enough FPS (apart from Resistance, notably CoD4, Haze, UT3, to some extent Warhak, but lots of other multi-platform stuff too), sports games and so on. All they need to focus on is staying competitive on those two levels, while showing that they are a well rounded console that brings unique games of all types to its platform. Uncharted and R&C (and to some extent Heavenly Sword) are essential games in that respect, and they will both definitely move systems during Christmas. PS Eye and related games (Eye of Judgment, the 8 PSN games) and SingStar along with the multiplatform games of Rockstar and Guitar Hero 3 add another area. MotorStorm and Formula 1 add to Dirt and shortly Burnout, and hopefully GT5 Prologue will make it to the US at least this time, to fill out the racers. It goes on and on - Sony just needs to keep filling out the different genres, make sure the multi-platform isn't too obviously behind the competition (keep an eye out for messy stuff like PES / Madden) while bringing strong exclusives to the table. It's not easy, but they just need to steamroller on ... there's lots coming still and they just need to make sure they get it out there.

Here are the US market bombs: F1, Motorstorm, HS, Warhawk, Lair and now R&C. The ONLY PS3 exclusive game did well on it's own in the US is Resistance. Plus major crossplatforms also have not faired well on the PS3. Bundling games and adding them to sales obviously isn't the same.

Eye of judgement? you kidding me?

Mind you, the 360 has moved itself into a great position in the US. I'm still thinking though that it will eventually be DVD that'll kill them, as well as having a difficult time with their first party stuff, but that's not a discussion we should have in this thread.

One day you'll just get have to over it. I'm playing assassin's creed which fits fine on a DVD. Mass Effect will also. If hardware was progressive, I'd agree with you but console baseline hardware doesn't change during it's life cycle. But believe what you will.

 

[Arwin]

There's nothing wrong with saying the emporer has no clothes if that happens to be the case.

True. But in this case, I'm contesting the filter some people deem necessary to put over everything Sony to make those clothes seem invisible. The negative spin marketing department is a lot bigger than Sony's PR department. There's showing there are no clothes, and there's throwing mud, or even stones.

@liolio: yes, and I'm starting to see more and more clearly why. It's not just different perception - the PS3 really is and has been a better product for the European market than it has been for the US market, and vice versa - I can see the appeal of the 360 in the US being much stronger for a large amount of reasons (language support less important, eyetoy, buzz and singstar franchises almost non-existent, online more important than in Europe, fps games more popular than in europe, etc.). It will be interesting to see how it develops.

 

[aselto]

EA says: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30645

This guy apparently didn't notice that they released FIFA the same week as Halo 3 in UK.

Poor PGR4 though. Bombing that badly. It did very well in UK though (was all formats 1st in the week of its release), but it is very clear to me that Halo 3 (and perhaps FM2 bundle) canibalized PGR4 sales in USA.

 

[betan]

Here are the US market bombs: F1, Motorstorm, HS, Warhawk, Lair and now R&C.

For the sake of objective discussion, can someone tell me a measurable definition of bomb, since the word keeps coming up so often?

Specifically I'm curious if "breaking even" is considered a bomb. Or userbase has any say on the definition.

BTW, you keep mentioning Warhawk which we have no complete sales data as far as I know.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The negative spin marketing department is a lot bigger than Sony's PR department.

New rule: Sony fans have to quit playing the "negative spin" card.

It's complete crap. Everyone in this thread has been very reserved, nobody is going all doom and gloom, and even joystiq simply poking fun at Sony's ridiculous PR.

This is not negative spin, this is reality.

There's showing there are no clothes, and there's throwing mud, or even stones.

Which no-one is really doing. It seems like you expect the media to be completely pro-sony, in the face of month after monthg after month of horrible sales, and any hint of criticism is immediately decried as Negative Spin.

Is it not possible that the the media has a justifiably pessimistic outlook? Is it not possible that your hopes, and optimism are a little less unrealistic?? i.e. 'positive spin'?

 

[Carl B]

Here are the US market bombs: F1, Motorstorm, HS, Warhawk, Lair and now R&C. The ONLY PS3 exclusive game did well on it's own in the US is Resistance. Plus major crossplatforms also have not faired well on the PS3.

I wouldn't say Motorstorm's a bomb by anyone's reckoning; it's sold over a million copies afterall. I would question calling Warhawk a bomb either; it's got quite the fan base and a very high-margin distribution model. Indeed even Ratchet and Clank, 100k sales isn't pathetic; it just wasn't a blockbuster is all. But it will probably sell some more units going into the holiday season. Let's give it some time before determining whether it 'bombed.'

Eye of judgement? you kidding me?

Hey don't knock Eye of Judgment!

 

[Arwin]

New rule: Sony fans have to quit playing the "negative spin" card.

And

This is not negative spin, this is reality.

Sure, whatever.

It seems like you expect the media to be completely pro-sony, in the face of month after month after month of horrible sales

Horrible sales of the PS3, or the PSP/PS2 and PS3 combined? When are we allowed to talk about which?

Is it not possible that the the media has a justifiably pessimistic outlook? Is it not possible that your hopes, and optimism are a little less unrealistic?? i.e. 'positive spin'?

Of course that's possible. But this particular joystiq article was very clearly negative spin. I could have done a better job making the PR look bad using comments that actually made sense.

 

[Tap In]

Xbox Live is making the 360 world go round...

playing a Single player game while a friend is playing the same game, while you are privately chatting together about it and while other friends are asking you if you like the game via messaging and enriched fully featured Multiplayer experiences (cross game invites/voice and online in every game etc) are defining the 360 software sales this gen.

friends are seen playing new games on (system wide) friend's lists and if it's fun, they tell two friends who tell two friends who....

THAT is where MS started defining the generation in 2005 E3 and where Sony is missing a big piece of the puzzle so far.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Sure, whatever.

Excellent rebuttal.

 

[dobwal]

I wouldn't say Motorstorm's a bomb by anyone's reckoning; it's sold over a million copies afterall. I would question calling Warhawk a bomb either; it's got quite the fan base and a very high-margin distribution model. Indeed even Ratchet and Clank, 100k sales isn't pathetic; it just wasn't a blockbuster is all. But it will probably sell some more units going into the holiday season. Let's give it some time before determining whether it 'bombed.'



Hey don't knock Eye of Judgment!

I think all these titles sold below expectation in the US. However, I think the responsibility lies with Sony and not the games themselves. Put these titles on the 360 and in all probability, they all would have been platinum hits.

 

[patsu]

Here are the US market bombs: F1, Motorstorm, HS, Warhawk, Lair and now R&C. The ONLY PS3 exclusive game did well on it's own in the US is Resistance. Plus major crossplatforms also have not faired well on the PS3. Bundling games and adding them to sales obviously isn't the same.

Would be nice if you can include numbers when making statements like that. Motorstorm sold more than a million. R&C I am actually still pretty optimistic. It may have a slow start but it may yet again have legs. But we shall see.

\playing a Single player game while a friend is playing the same game, while you are privately chatting together about it and while other friends are asking you if you like the game via messaging and enriched fully featured Multiplayer experiences (cross game invites/voice and online in every game etc) are defining the 360 software sales this gen.

I think online is more attractive to extend the value of a game beyond SP (Like adding a MP mini-game after Heavenly Sword SP). The experience you mentioned above can be pretty annoying to some (and I will drop that guy from the friend list). I don't think it's core to the games.

friends are seen playing new games on (system wide) friend's lists and if it's fun, they tell two friends who tell two friends who....

You can do that on PSN also. In fact, I also know people who get together and chat on PSN before clan meets (just like Playstation Home intended).

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I'm still thinking though that it will eventually be DVD that'll kill them

Do what??