NPD October 2007

[dobwal]

True. But in this case, I'm contesting the filter some people deem necessary to put over everything Sony to make those clothes seem invisible. The negative spin marketing department is a lot bigger than Sony's PR department. There's showing there are no clothes, and there's throwing mud, or even stones.

Negative spin?

The current sales of the PS3 and its software doesn't require spinning to place it into a negative light. The PS3 is seeing a lot of negative media and commentary on here because it is simply doing very poorly in the US and below expectations everywhere. This is not spinning, this is straight forward look at the current situation.

Does this mean that the PS3 is doomed? Certainly not. But its not like the general perception of the PS3 right now isn't well deserved.

 

[Tap In]

I think online is more attractive to extend the value of a game beyond SP ...

yes and Live is a much more complete online experience and has a bigger presence therefore it creates a bigger buzz which in turns drives bigger sales than PSN can at the moment and for the past year and foreseeable near future.

We are discussing the current condition of the market NPD and in the US, Live is alive.


I have been echoing this sentiment (Live and the vision MS has had since Day 1 is a difference maker) for months and months around here and I truly believe it makes an impact on those huge 360 software sales.

 

[RobertR1]

I wouldn't say Motorstorm's a bomb by anyone's reckoning; it's sold over a million copies afterall. I would question calling Warhawk a bomb either; it's got quite the fan base and a very high-margin distribution model. Indeed even Ratchet and Clank, 100k sales isn't pathetic; it just wasn't a blockbuster is all. But it will probably sell some more units going into the holiday season. Let's give it some time before determining whether it 'bombed.'

Do you have figures for how many were sold online? because as per NPD, it had poor sales in retail. "strong fanbase" needs to be reflected in sales. Motorstrom was bundled just like Forza2. None of these outside of Resistance have been system sellers. That's the point here. Your exclusives are suppose to sell your console! Coming in around or under 100k for your high bugeted exclusives is pathetic and a bomb (add PGR4 to the list btw!) no matter how many times one spins in circles. I know I know, the company line remains "wait!" Maybe the PS3 hardware and software sales will ramp up to a respectable figure going forward but LTD, pathetic would be right word to describe both in the US market.

 

[RobertR1]

Xbox Live is making the 360 world go round...

playing a Single player game while a friend is playing the same game, while you are privately chatting together about it and while other friends are asking you if you like the game via messaging and enriched fully featured Multiplayer experiences (cross game invites/voice and online in every game etc) are defining the 360 software sales this gen.

friends are seen playing new games on (system wide) friend's lists and if it's fun, they tell two friends who tell two friends who....

THAT is where MS started defining the generation in 2005 E3 and where Sony is missing a big piece of the puzzle so far.

A good example of this is last night I pop in Assassin's Creed and a buddy of mine who was playing COD4 jumps into private chat (he's hardcore with 25k gamerpoints) with me telling me how sick the game is. So we talk about the good and bad about the game while another buddy of ours, who is new to the system and also playing CoD4 with him asks what's going on. We tell him about AC and now he's sold on it. He'll be picking it up today. Because you can see what all your friends are doing on Live anytime chances are you'll be wanting to pick up and play what your buddies have. Then you can add some friendly (ours is not friendly at all )competition about getting certain achievements and you get a platform that is selling the games for you.

 

[Carl B]

Motorstrom was bundled just like Forza2.

I'm not quite understanding how the bundle plays into things here though. As for Warhawk, it's clear just from anecdotal evidence that the vast majority of sales were online. Afterall, it's $20 cheaper that way.

 

[RobertR1]

I'm not quite understanding how the bundle plays into things here though.

Bundles inflate the sales figures. Had MS sold 1million on it's own before being added to the bundled packages?

Kinda like how PGR3 LTD would look high on paper but a large amount of the sales came from being bundled in a console sku or with the wheel.

 

[aselto]

I think online is more attractive to extend the value of a game beyond SP (...). The experience you mentioned above can be pretty annoying to some (and I will drop that guy from the friend list). I don't think it's core to the games.

i have yet to meet a person who complains about being able to integrate with other people on Live. Gameplay of the games is their core, but seamlessly enhancing that core is a desired thing.

 

[Acert93]

Indeed even Ratchet and Clank, 100k sales isn't pathetic; it just wasn't a blockbuster is all.

100K is pathetic, especially considering the budgets of these games and the high profile nature of the product. While I agree that the current PS3 demographic probably doesn't lend itself well to blockbuster R&C sales, the fact it is a well known IP that was released in the form of an amazing game begs the question why aren't PS3 owners buying the best the PS3 has to offer? Nintendo has older gamers who buy "kiddie" games, and even a game like Kameo on the Xbox 360 (new IP, decent quality) sold very well.

You look at the Xbox 360, at a similar general window in its existance, and you see much lesser games like Dead Rising, Saint's Row, and Lost Planet have strong first month sales and breaking the million mark within months. While there are bound to be exceptions, I think the issue is more than a demographic issue but an software adoption disparity between platforms. I am with Tap In with this one, I think Live (with demos, trailers, DLC, large/vibrant online community, achievements) is driving software sales. This explains the 360 software adoption patterns nicely.

But that still doesn't explain why an excellent game like R&C pretty much went overlooked by most PS3 consumers in NA. You look at the sales of their other recent releases (like HS, Lair, etc) and it begs the question: What are PS3 owners waiting for? Flawless games that cater to their exacting expectations?

Maybe Kojima was right about his "steak dinner" analogies?

 

[RobertR1]

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/35436/October-U-S-PC-Console-Hardware-Sales-Charts

Software top 10's. I have a feeling this won't be up long so check em out quick:

 

[Carl B]

Bundles inflate the sales figures. Had MS sold 1million on it's own before being added to the bundled packages?

Included software in box doesn't contribute to NPD (or other) tracked sales data.

 

[RobertR1]

Included software in box doesn't contribute to NPD (or other) tracked sales data.

Ok so NPD LTD for Motorstorm in the US is now at 1million?

 

[betan]

Ok so NPD LTD for Motorstorm in the US is now at 1million?

1 million is world wide (possibly sold to retails at the time).

 

[Carl B]

While I agree that the current PS3 demographic probably doesn't lend itself well to blockbuster R&C sales, the fact it is a well known IP that was released in the form of an amazing game begs the question why aren't PS3 owners buying the best the PS3 has to offer?

The Sims is a well-known IP as well, but if that came out on the PS3 I wouldn't be buying it.

Nintendo has older gamers who buy "kiddie" games, and even a game like Kameo on the Xbox 360 (new IP, decent quality) sold very well.

Kameo sold well (honestly though I wouldn't say it did) because it was part of the 360's launch madness; not only a launch title seeing the usual spike, but launched in the environment of the forced bundles that MS was doing in conjunction with retailers. And Kameo figured prominently in those bundles.

As for Nintendo, frankly I think the recent Metroid should be doing better considering its own excellence, and it's not even kiddie. But what? You can't make an audience want something that isn't what they bought the system for.

But that still doesn't explain why an excellent game like R&C pretty much went overlooked by most PS3 consumers in NA. You look at the sales of their other recent releases (like HS, Lair, etc) and it begs the question: What are PS3 owners waiting for?

I don't think PS3 owners are "waiting" for anything per se; but I personally don't go and buy new games just because they're new. It has to interest me. To use the word 'excellent' as synonymous with 'appealing' I think is a faux pax here; again no one is saying R&C isn't great, but I can recognize excellence in motorcycles as well without coveting them.

Why R&C didn't blow the doors off at retail should be obvious to anyone; to accuse the PS3 owner base of either apathy or standards beyond the pale is neither here nor there. When MGS4 launches, it will sell. When FFXIII launches, it will sell. Killzone 2, Resistance 2, etc...

Not because these are big franchises, but because these are titles the present owner base is drawn to.

Say what you will about budgets and titles, but I doubt heavily that many of the present PS3 owners bought the system for themselves thinking: "Ratchet." Great game though it is. You view Ratchet's bombing in absolute terms; I view in relative terms. It met my sales expectations, for better or worse. Though I'll add I think it'll have decent residuals through year-end...

 

[patsu]

yes and Live is a much more complete online experience and has a bigger presence therefore it creates a bigger buzz which in turns drives bigger sales than PSN can at the moment and for the past year and foreseeable near future.

We are discussing the current condition of the market NPD and in the US, Live is alive.

Many of the exclusive Sony games in discussion do not have an MP component to begin with (HS, R&C, Uncharted). OTOH, Resistance, Warhawk and MotorStorm have varying degree of online gameplay. That's why I mentioned Sony should observe whether an online addition can fuel immediate sales.

I would see what effect the online additions have on sales (of current and future titles) first -- possibly without sacrificing SP. This would be an indication of how spontaneous and how much buying power the online generation have.

As for buzz generation and completeness of experiences, XBL is certainly ahead. But they may be higher level value above the real/basic online sales driver.

i have yet to meet a person who complains about being able to integrate with other people on Live. Gameplay of the games is their core, but seamlessly enhancing that core is a desired thing.

I won't complain. Just drop him like what people have done on PSN too.

 

[TheChefO]

As for Ratchet and Clank, I'm sort of surprised that others here are surprised at its performance.

That's the point I'd been trying to make for ages. R&C isn't the game to put ps3 on the map at it's current price point(s).

PS3 faithful though disagreed.

I'm much more interested to see how Drake does. IMO, it has the potential to move systems.

 

[Skrying]

Ever notice how the next upcoming game for the PS3 is the one to finally "move systems"? Yeah, me too.

 

[Carl B]

I'm much more interested to see how Drake does. IMO, it has the potential to move systems.

It's an FPS world, and Drake I think may be too esoteric in concept. But, we'll see I guess. I haven't seen promotion for the game though that IMO would adequately differentiate it for the gaming public in ways that make it rise above the din of an otherwise packed (and hyped) gaming season, as deserving of such as it might otherwise be.

 

[patsu]

Ever notice how the next upcoming game for the PS3 is the one to finally "move systems"? Yeah, me too.

Yes, I noticed that too. The behaviour will go away once the platform matures.

 

[betan]

You look at the Xbox 360, at a similar general window in its existance, and you see much lesser games like Dead Rising, Saint's Row, and Lost Planet have strong first month sales and breaking the million mark within months. While there are bound to be exceptions, I think the issue is more than a demographic issue but an software adoption disparity between platforms. I am with Tap In with this one, I think Live (with demos, trailers, DLC, large/vibrant online community, achievements) is driving software sales. This explains the 360 software adoption patterns nicely.

Live and it's goodies are certainly a force in terms of software adoption rate.
Yet it's still far from conclusive how strong is that force.
All of those games seems to fit the shooter exclusive criteria. So why did relatively good reviewed PGR4 "bombed" despite live?
Also what kind of competition did those lesser games had?

When I look at the software sales of multiplatform titles on both consoles, I don't see the big difference people keep talking about. Even total monthly software sales can be explained by cheaper and bigger library of 360.

Ever notice how the next upcoming game for the PS3 is the one to finally "move systems"? Yeah, me too.

PS3 has no system sellers, it's not going to have anytime soon either.
360 has Halo, Wii has Wii Sports.

 

[dobwal]

That's the point I'd been trying to make for ages. R&C isn't the game to put ps3 on the map at it's current price point(s).

PS3 faithful though disagreed.

I'm much more interested to see how Drake does. IMO, it has the potential to move systems.

I doubt uncharted can do much better than RC at moving systems, its relatively an unknown to most potential PS3 consumers.

It's a holiday release it should at least garner some sales but it won't push many to buy a PS3.