How much money did MS lose on making those games?
You don't cut off your leg just because your hand is doing fine on its own right now. MS isn't going to want to go to its shareholders and explain a shrinking revenue base.
NPD November 2010
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- npd npd november 2010
How much money did MS lose on making those games?
You don't cut off your leg just because your hand is doing fine on its own right now. MS isn't going to want to go to its shareholders and explain a shrinking revenue base.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's not Microsoft or Sony that has to "target" the core or hardcore market. If they didn't do it then 3rd parties would push it on whatever platform they could and whichever platforms users took to it would be the console that would be focused on.
So, for example, IF MS and Sony didn't even bother making a console this generation and dropped out of the market entirely, all those core games we like would have still been made. Only now, they'd have originated and been sold on either the Wii or PC.
Sure on the Wii, the graphics would have been lower than what is available on PS3 or X360, but if those didn't exist, you can bet there would have been a COD FPS on Wii. Or they would have dropped console visions and gone full bore with a PC version.
So, no, "core" games aren't going anywhere even if Sony's and MS's first party studios stopped releasing core games.
Regards,
SB
Indeed.
That's the primary reason I don't think Sony wants to try and "spark" demand by dropping the price of PS3.
They know there is no way they can beat them on pricing without eating away all their profits. I'm beginning to think Sony needs to abandon ps3 in much the same way MS did Xbox. With the obvious advantage being that they can scale ps3 architecture and bring all the dev tools and tricks they've learned along the way.
The motion controls will be a good kick for sales for a little while, but I'm thinking a couple years is about all we can expect before console sales for both start to fall off.
I expect a $50 price drop next year and another the following year. After that, the msrp is dipping at or below the BOM. That's when it's time for a new console.
The ecosystem you speak of exists because there are core console available to target as a developer. Where has PC gaming gone the past 5 years? PC games sales are way down for many reasons I won't get into but point is, without xb360 and ps3 to target, the pc gaming world would be dead outside of WoW.
As far as COD being on Wii, that's exactly what I was talking about.
That's about what we could expect.
It wouldn't have near the investment from devs as the xb360/ps3 versions we see today.
Without competition, there is no reason for MS to produce a "hi-end" xb720 console or a "hi-end" followup xb1080 or whatever.
PC marketshare wouldn't make a difference as the market that actually buys games is very small.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
At this point I don't think MS would drop the price of X360 if Sony dropped the price on the PS3. At the very least, they'd wait to see if a drop in price on PS3 affected sales of X360. And at this point, I'm not sure that a PS3 priced at 249 USD or even 199 USD would significantly impact sales of X360.
And I don't think Sony needs to drop the PS3 just yet. Especially not when devs and multiplatform engines are finally hitting their stride. Platform parity is easier now than it was a year or two ago. Or if not easier, at least devs have a better grasp on PS3 than a year or two ago.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony waited until they had a few profitable quarters in a row before thinking about launching a successor. Or if MS gears up for a successor. But I don't think MS is going to do that for at least another 2-4 years unless they get pushed into it by Sony launching a console.
Regards,
SB
Sorry I didn't clarify, I meant MS investing in "hardcore" hardware. Enabling the future "hardcore" experiences we expect from developers.
The hardware of a new console isn't going to get worse. I'm not sure how they would achieve what you suggest? Not ship it with a controller?
Obviously without competitors they could afford to be less aggressive, but that's not really a hardcore vs casual issue. Just demand vs supply.
I agree that ps3 demand at this point is low as the system-to-get is the xb360 at this point and that is (to a certain extent) irrelevant of price.
As for timing, I'm not implying drop ps3 tomorrow. I'm suggesting they should give up the idea of trying to "win" this gen and focus their efforts on next gen. No reason to be aggressive with pricing & exclusives to gain marketshare etc. for this gen. Just let ps3 ride while being as profitable as possible.
Focus on ps4.
Get it ready, get devs on board, get the games polished using the extended dev tool sets they've built up. Target window should be Fall 2011. Then allow the extra year to polish the software tools up, build up and polish the launch library, and manufacture enough units to hit retail in the fall of 2012.
Roughly what, double what the gc was?
Heck at this point MS could enable full bandwidth on xb360 usb ports and overclock the shipping 360s in 2012 and call it a day.
Isn't that what I said?
me said:
Besides, the point is their profitability at this point with ps3 is very limited. Demand is limited at this price and lower pricepoints cut profitability. Probably the best thing Sony could do to generate profits would be to include the move package in every ps3. Eat the cost of one move setup, but focus on establishing the move experience with extended library and of course the insanely profitable secondary move controllers.
Sony is much like nintendo , any non gaming software they make is horrible . Sony needs to partner with google for the ps4 and psp 2. if they don't , then they will just get left further behind. You can have the best hardware in the wrold but it hardly means nothing if the user experiance isn't there. Now that systems require more than just poping in the games , sony is way behind
doubtful. If you want to sell something new for a premium it needs to offer something significant.
It wouldn't cost much more than an existing slim. $30-50 tops.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I don't think 2011 or even 2012 is realistic for a new console launch for Sony. PS3 has some momentum going for it worldwide. If you only look at NPD results it paints PS3 in a worse situation than it is really in.
Launching a new console is a costly and risky proposition and there is nothing to gain for them launching in 2011. You'd immediately go from an ~40 million install base to at best a few million consoles launched the first year. It worked out for MS because the Xbox was already not doing well compared to the other two players. I'm fairly certain Sony wouldn't have launched PS3 so early if not for MS launching the X360. PS2 was still going strong and still had legs. Sony, I'm almost positive was still planning on a 10 years cycle for PS2 before launching PS3. MS sort of short circuited that.
This round, I think both MS and Sony are hoping to get closer to the 10 year mark before pushing a new console. The only potential circumstance where I see that changing is if Nintendo one ups both the PS3 and X360 in capabilities with a new console before the X360 is close to 10 years old.
I'm sure both companies have contingency plans for launching some kind of replacement if push comes to shove, but I really believe both companies when they say they would like the current gen hardware to last ~10 years.
Regards,
SB
Who cares, if it doesn't offer the consumer anything over existing hardware, they aren't going to buy it, if consumers don't buy it developers won't support it.
Competition will force better hardware, just not for the reasons you seem to think. It has little to do with with hardcore vs casual. There's no justification for them to contract their market and leave hardcore gaming to the pc even without console competition.
I do too.
However, "want-to" sometimes isn't enough.
If Kinect really shifts consumer focus and pulls Sony customers away, Sony will have no choice as price cuts would only lead them into further losses.
Granted, it isn't a grim situation now with still somewhat healthy sales for ps3, but Sony can't be caught with their pants down on this. They need to be smart about next gen and they absolutely cannot afford to ship after MS nextgen.
Now if sales stay healthy through the year and they can continue to rake in profits on each console sold, then no problem. They can both ride the ten year cycle into profitability. But if sales slump and software sales slump and mindshare quickly deteriorates, they should be ready to do something about it.
Being ready for 2012 would be a smart thing for Sony and they could continue to push ps3 w/move as a casual alternative to kinect.
I'm not sure why MS would care if hardcore gamers went the pc route ...
no royalitys on sales ?
They still keep royalties on Windows and keep it relevant.
If they can sell a console out the gate that is profitable (Wii) while only "losing" a small percent to the PC, I think MS would classify that as a win-win in contrast to the billions they've lost so far in the gaming biz.
