Well it seemed like a big deal to you to point out other regions that the PS3 is outselling the 360 so what is the difference? Also, are you trying to imply that it is somehow Nintendo and MS fault for Sony's starting price and current price to be competitive?
NPD November 2008
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Well it seemed like a big deal to you to point out other regions that the PS3 is outselling the 360 so what is the difference? Also, are you trying to imply that it is somehow Nintendo and MS fault for Sony's starting price and current price to be competitive?
Also, are you trying to imply that it is somehow Nintendo and MS fault for Sony's starting price and current price to be competitive?
No. Don't interpret into my posts please.
Btw, there's another thing that the PS3 has going against it; the fact that you can't mod/hack it to play pirated software. We all know a lot of 360 and Wii owners do it and buy the console only when it is possible.
No. Don't interpret into my posts please.
Btw, there's another thing that the PS3 has going against it; the fact that you can't mod/hack it to play pirated software. We all know a lot of 360 and Wii owners do it and buy the console only when it is possible.
Why on earth would you want that?
Because its not making profits?
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Keep living on that happy magic cloud of yours, I'm sure it's a nice place.
We are not talking about short term losses here. That may be on the surface but it should be more than obvious by now that Sony is in very deep trouble.
People, the Wii has sold more than five times as many units as the PS3 in november!
It should be completely clear by now that at least half of the PS2 user base was made up of casuals buying games that we haven't even heard about. For every Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo and Metal Gear there are dozens of small titles; cooking games, dating games, train simulators, and so on, that usually don't even sell a million copies. But the numbers add up in the end, and these were the largest chunks of Sony's income.
And now, Nintendo has managed to take away this market segment from Sony, there can no longer be any doubt. They're not bringing in some huge, previously unknown market segment consisting of grandmothers and housewives, it's mostly the part of the PS2's user base that we've not really payed any attention to. We're talking about as many as 50 to 80 million users here, who will not buy a Playstation in this generation and there is nothing Sony can do to stop it.
The outcome of the current generation has been decided years ago, when Sony choose the expensive high tech machine and Nintendo choose the cheap machine with the Wiimote. The market is changing slowly, but it's because it has terrible momentum and thus it will take years to change it again, this time in Sony's favour.
Personally, I think that Nintendo is going to end up with close to a hundred million users and since they're years ahead of their competitors, they'll easily hold on to them in the next generation as well. MS and Sony can't just simply copy the Wiimote and turn the market around completely.
Only by the time of Xbox4/PS5 will there be a chance to come up with something completely different, that stands out and captures this casual audience that makes up more than half of the market. I don't know if it's going to be a new input device, a new output device (virtual reality or true 3D or whatever, doesn't really matter), or a new approach to game design or developer relations, or whatever, but it'll take something radical.
The X360 vs PS3 debates are completly pointless here. After this december, Nintendo is going to own one half of the console market and they'll continue to grow their market share rapidly. MS and Sony are fighting for the leftovers - and Sony's losing this battle as well. This is the result of all their minor mistakes, like pricing and time to market and so on, but even if they got everything right they'd still only have half of the Wii's current sales - a mere fraction of the PS2 user base.
So this is why I say that Sony is in deep trouble. It's pretty much decided already that they won't be able to take their old user base back from Nintendo with the PS4. Again, sticking a Wiimote on top of the machine won't help, and casuals don't care about shiny hardware or the next AAA action games at all. No FFXIII or KZ2 or even GT5 will be able to win those gamers back.
PS4 may be able to contend with the next Xbox better then the PS3 does with the current one, butl that's still no more than 50-60 million potential customers. So they're looking at a seriously reduced income for another 8 years or so, and they'll have to come up with something super cool on this foundation to try to take the leading position back from Nintendo. The good news is that ideas don't cost as much money as developing another Cell or Bluray - if Nintendo was able to do it with an empty pocket, then Sony should be able to do it as well. But it'll take a lot of time nevertheless.
This is why I've mentioned that in this situation, even the drastical decision to shut the console division down completely would make sense. They have to make some serious changes anyway, and there's no guarantee that the Playstation brand will become king once again sometime in the future. So maybe it's not worth spending a lot of money to fight for it, but only Sony knows the numbers.
And noote that I've only been talking about the possibility, but everyone has taken it a bit too seriously...
But my main point is that Sony is in a lot more trouble then most of you guys are willing to admit it. They've lost at least half of their old user base, and thus at least half of their income, for two generations and they're completly helpless to do anything about it; what's more, they're now at the point where MS is seriously close to take away all that's left for them as well.
midorigreenwood
Newcomer
speaking as an australian with a broken tv remote (so I actually have to watch the ads)...... Nintendo just spends alot more on traditional forms of marketing than their competitors.
They understand their core audience.
They're like the Coca-cola of the videogame industy. They don't need to advertise games like Wiifit and Brain training......but they do so......just about every day.
Explain the software sell-through on the 360 and Wii.
No, why would HE want that. As a gamer, I simply cannot understand why anyone would want Sony to fall out of the race, that would be the worst possible thing that could happen to the industry, IMO.
I'm not mad or angry, just wondering why anyone would think that is / should be an option.
Personally, I would rather Sony cut their losses and stop funding terrible movies and put that cash into their gaming Division. I don't think the PS3 is a lost cause at all, in fact, I think it could be a great cash cow further down the line if Sony can manage to stay in it.
What Sony needs to do is hit a lower price point, and it's obviously going to take time to get there. Once they hit a lower price point, shovel ware will come, more software will come, and they can start the 'rebuilding' process. The Xbox 360 Arcade SKU made it widely apparent that price is the absolute biggest driving factor.
I'd be willing to be the majority of their 800K in November was Arcade Units, and by majority, I mean more than 60%.
If Sony can make Home a good investment, continue to push out 1st party software, and rebuild their relationships with 3rd parties (which apparently means give them a lot of money, or at least as much money as Microsoft) then they will be just fine.
Honestly though, if Sony was to pull out of Gaming, I think we'd be fucked. Nintendo obviously isn't going to shit on Gamers, but I'm not so sure Microsoft has any wonderful plans for us, and they need competition more than any other console manufacturer (IMO).
midorigreenwood
Newcomer
As a Nintendo fanboy..... I'd prefer if the 800 pound elephant in Microsoft with their 50 billion dollars in the bank would continue concentrating their efforts on the 500 pound Sony Gorilla conglomerate.
However as we saw in Sega..... unsustainable business practices will eventually catch up with you.
The most troubling aspect about Sony's videogame venture......is how little money (relatively) they made during their ten years of dominance and 300 million console install base.
A quick look at Nintendo's financials should show you what a sustainable business plan should look like.
IMO, Sony is too freaking big.
they need to be split up into "baby bells" so that they can be more concentrated against their numerous competition in their numerous product lines.
Hopefully they can tough it out and come out of the quagmire, a more astute and focused competitor.
Way higher install base. There you go.
Have to disagree with some of this. I think in the next wave of consoles, Nintendo's current userbase is far more 'up for grab' than either Sony's or Microsofts because those 2 are building a userbase of people dependent on exclusive services, rather than just a controller or marketing. It will be far easier for someone with a Wiimote and games to buy the Xbox 3 than it will for someone with an 360 to switch to the Nintendo platform.
And I think that's the part that everyone is trying to put their finger on with the Wii. Why do they feel it is a fad? To me, the root of this is that families buying the Wii (and based on my non-gamer friends, its mostly everyone) they are buying a APPLIANCE, they arent buying into a platform the way Sony and MS customers are. When the next gen rolls around, the people who got an xbox will have gamercards, gamerscores, friends lists, bought DLC, linked mail accounts, etc. They will have roots into the Live service and others on the Live service. Wii owners? They'll have a pile of peripherals that may or may not be interesting to them any longer, and a wii speak thats bound to their console.
Also, this may very well be the last relevant generation of consoles where the primary decision maker did not grow up with vdeo games. The Wii is bringing in parents now and but that wont be necessary in the future. Video games will no longer be something thats intimidating to people in 3 years from now. It was arrogant when Sony said it at the time but I think there is some truth in the fact that Nintendo is grooming the Sony (and MS) cusomters of tomorrow. The is wii is like a video game system with training wheels on it for a lot of the casuals buying it now. Theyre great when you dont know how to ride a bike but no one really wants to keep training wheels on forever.
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Sony making "little" profits from their two machines, the most successful consoles in history, means that they always or for starters sold the units under what it cost to make them. They are doing this with the PS3. Sony as a company is prepared to take loss here, quite blatantly. Microsoft and Nintendo are not. And you're telling me you would like Sony to "lose ground", knowing that MS and Nintendo both technically rip you off when you buy their system? You're a smarty boy aren't you.
Sony have taken the biggest gamble in videogame history with banking on the Blu-Ray. They could have swapped it out for a much more powerful graphics chip or more memory, and just gone with DVD like the Xbox 360 has. Then, you would pay the same price, but for a more noticeable increase in graphics quality. Sure, that would make you technophiles happier, but it wasn't what Sony wanted. Sony wanted Blu-Ray to pull through and it did. Next year, according to analyst prospectus, they will be earning the fruit of that.
As you see HDTV penetration increase, Blu-Ray sales will increase. Six out of ten times people buy a PS3 when they feel the need to get a Blu-Ray player - cheapest one or not. There are other factors that play into it which are given as advice by shop clerks - updateability, durability, brand name and functionality. Personally I think anyone who buys a dedicated Blu-Ray player for home use instead of a PS3 is a full-on-moron.
As you see Blu-Ray sales increase, the PS3 will shoot off in pure hardware sales like cheap DVD players did. When price goes down next year for the PS3, and it will, probably by more than $100, not only will the console be attractive to gamers that are left with few upcoming heavy hitters on Wii/Xbox, but it will also be attractive to Joe Everybody who can opt for a $300 PS3 instead of a $250 Blu-Ray player. Christmas in a year from now will be overpopulated with PS3 deals and special offers in all major electrical outlets. Take my word on it.
Can you elaborate on why they need PS4 for that? Specifically, why do you think sticking a Wiimote-like controller to PS3 when it reach $299 won't work?
Graphics quality does not matter!
Ever since the jump from 2D to 3D the changes are becoming smaller and smaller to the casual's eye, but they cost more and more in software and hardware development and content creation.
PS2 has about 1 billion games sold (probably more by now).
About 500 million units are from sales of games that have sold more than 1 million copies. Only about half of these can be considered AA games.
And about 500 million units have to be from games we've never even heard about.
Thus, AA games with nice graphics account for about a quarter of the market, maybe even less. Which is what makes Nintendo rich right now.
Ever since the jump from 2D to 3D the changes are becoming smaller and smaller to the casual's eye, but they cost more and more in software and hardware development and content creation.
PS2 has about 1 billion games sold (probably more by now).
About 500 million units are from sales of games that have sold more than 1 million copies. Only about half of these can be considered AA games.
And about 500 million units have to be from games we've never even heard about.
Thus, AA games with nice graphics account for about a quarter of the market, maybe even less. Which is what makes Nintendo rich right now.
midorigreenwood
Newcomer
lol, I was obviously being facetious by calling myself a nintendork.....why take it so serious by calling me an idiot?
I love sales thread..... it brings out the worse in everyone hehehe
If Sony was just an independent videogame manufacturer like Nintendo.... no way in hell would they have tacked on a bluray drive when it wasn't needed for videogames this gen.
It delayed their launch by a year and it continues to plague the console with prohibitive costs.
I don't think they could have stopped the Nintendo jugganaut this gen but they would have been a hell of alot more competitive against microsoft.
I love sales thread..... it brings out the worse in everyone hehehe
If Sony was just an independent videogame manufacturer like Nintendo.... no way in hell would they have tacked on a bluray drive when it wasn't needed for videogames this gen.
It delayed their launch by a year and it continues to plague the console with prohibitive costs.
I don't think they could have stopped the Nintendo jugganaut this gen but they would have been a hell of alot more competitive against microsoft.
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