"Nintendo's New Direction"

[Li Mu Bai]

What is it that you people such as DM & Almasy do not understand? Beefed up or turbo Gamecube?

Hey, that went too far...insulting me is one thing, but typing my name along with Deadmeat´s?!

I was just proving you wrong when you said Nintendo was heading in a new direction (they obviously haven´t), but I´ve never, EVER denied the existence of a new console from Nintendo. I´d have to be crazy (or Deadmeat) to state something like that.

My sincerest apologies Almasy.

 

[Fox5]

If nintendo did launch cheap hardware with a progressive scan 640x480 lcd screen, they could win the initial graphics comparisions between consoles(assuming their hardware was at least within 2 years of the tech sony and ms were using) just on the higher quality display.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

If nintendo did launch cheap hardware with a progressive scan 640x480 lcd screen, they could win the initial graphics comparisions between consoles(assuming their hardware was at least within 2 years of the tech sony and ms were using) just on the higher quality display.

Fox, why even imagine such a ridiculous hypothetical scenario? Nintendo will not be behind the technological curve next gen., as they are not this generation. You're aware that MS's specs will most likely be finalized before the GCN's correct? They're using primarily the same technology partners, but as I noted will still have differing internal architectures. If Nintendo's past efforts at efficiency are any indication, GCN could indeed be slightly more powerful than Xenon. Regardless, they will definitely be on par.

 

[Almasy]

My sincerest apologies Almasy.

Apologies accepted.

Alright, to get back on topic, while the CPU provider may not be the same, the fact that the same company is providing the graphics chips for both companies means that performance will be very similar, the only way I can see one being noticeably better than the other is if there´s a one year difference or so between launches of those two.

The only wildcard next gen is PS3, IMO.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

My sincerest apologies Almasy.

Apologies accepted.

Alright, to get back on topic, while the CPU provider may not be the same, the fact that the same company is providing the graphics chips for both companies means that performance will be very similar, the only way I can see one being noticeably better than the other is if there´s a one year difference or so between launches of those two.

The only wildcard next gen is PS3, IMO.

Almasy, they do have the same CPU provider. (IBM PPC dual-cores) There will be months seperating all 3 consoles, with MS launching 1st supposedly in late '05 (or 1st qtr. of '06) to beat everyone else to market. The GCN & PS3 launching respectively in the 3rd to 4th quarters of '06. Expecting the Box's GPU to perhaps be an R420/R500 hybrid, (or a complete R500 as many estimate) of course this is dictated solely by the actual launch date as specs. must be locked down well before any type of manufacturing can begin. Both systems will have minimally DX9 effects, I say effects because the GCN will in all probability be using Open GL 2.0 as its API.

PS 3.0 support for both consoles I would assume, & those effects attainable by the PS3. Though what MS is attempting to accomplish with XNA, I feel that Nintendo will do in hardware. A powerful, efficient, simplistic design architecture to make optimization & performance extraction without the hand coding chores. They were well on their way with the GC's present architecture, but much of the 16-stage TEV pipeline required lengthy hand coding to produce some of the much more complex visual effects. (Although Factor 5 made it appear easy) This is where the DX8 library gave devs. an edge in game optimization. But lighting being done in parallel to other functions, huge L1 & L2 caches, etc, are examples of the customization processes I expect to follow over into GCN development. These will definitely differentiate it from the Xenon, which I expect will be more PC like in architectural design. All systems will also possess at least 256mb of main memory ram. The type, speed, & latency are unknowns at this point, but expect the GCN's to be unique & new.

 

[Almasy]

Almasy, they do have the same CPU provider. (IBM PPC dual-cores) There will be months seperating all 3 consoles, with MS launching 1st supposedly in late '05 (or 1st qtr. of '06) to beat everyone else to market. The GCN & PS3 launching respectively in the 3rd to 4th quarters of '06. Expecting the Box's GPU to perhaps be an R420/R500 hybrid, (or a complete R500 as many estimate) of course this is dictated solely by the actual launch date as specs. must be locked down well before any type of manufacturing can begin. Both systems will have minimally DX9 effects, I say effects because the GCN will in all probability be using Open GL 2.0 as its API.

PS 3.0 support for both consoles I would assume, & those effects attainable by the PS3. Though what MS is attempting to accomplish with XNA, I feel that Nintendo will do in hardware. A powerful, efficient, simplistic design architecture to make optimization & performance extraction without the hand coding chores. They were well on their way with the GC's present architecture, but much of the 16-stage TEV pipeline required lengthy hand coding to produce some of the much more complex visual effects. (Although Factor 5 made it appear easy) This is where the DX8 library gave devs. an edge in game optimization. But lighting being done in parallel to other functions, huge L1 & L2 caches, etc, are examples of the customization processes I expect to follow over into GCN development. These will definitely differentiate it from the Xenon, which I expect will be more PC like in architectural design. All systems will also possess at least 256mb of main memory ram. The type, speed, & latency are unknowns at this point, but expect the GCN's to be unique & new.

Has IBM been reported as being the CPU supplier? Because I heard GCN fans speculate about a multicore chip from NEC and other CPU vendors, and AFAIK, there has been no official announcement regarding this. MS does seem to want to launch before the other two guys, but I don´t want to take it as fact because nothing has been set in stone yet.

That said, I think it´s very interesting what you wrote there, and is one of the things Nintendo could do to differentiate their machine from MS´s. I also doubt they´d want to license XNA.

 

[Fox5]

NEC, Nintendo in Talks on New Game Console Chip

Tokyo, Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- NEC Corp. is in talks with Nintendo Co. to develop a chip for Nintendo's next generation video-game console that will replace the GameCube and compete with Sony Corp.'s planned game machine, NEC officials said.

Engineers at NEC Electronics Corp., the fully owned unit of Japan's second-largest chipmaker, and Nintendo, the world's No. 2 maker of video-game consoles, are discussing the possibility of co- developing a system chip for faster graphics, said two NEC executives who declined to be identified. System chips combine several functions.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s=APfmcfhL1TkVDLCBO

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Almasy, read this:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....storyID=3819632

IBM Builds Supercomputer Based on Gaming Chip
Fri November 14, 2003 12:01 AM ET

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - IBM Corp. (IBM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Friday that it has built a supercomputer the size of a television based on microchip technology to be used in gaming consoles due out next year.

IBM said the supercomputer, which can perform two trillion calculations per second, is a small-scale prototype of the Blue Gene/L supercomputer that it is building for the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California.

The computer made it onto the Top 500 supercomputer list, which is compiled by a member of the University of Tennessee's computer science department.

IBM vice president of technology and strategy Irving Wladawsky-Berger said that the supercomputer used 1,000 microprocessors that are based on PowerPC microchip technology. The PowerPC chip is currently used in Apple Computer Inc. (AAPL.O: Quote, Profile, Research) computers.

It is also the technology that will be the foundation of the next generation of gaming consoles from Nintendo Co. (7974.OS: Quote, Profile, Research) and Sony Corp. (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) , which IBM is working on, he said. He said the chips were less expensive and consumed less power than traditional microprocessors, making it possible to pack the same amount of computing power into a smaller space. Producing the chips in volume for gaming will help offset the costs of building supercomputers.

It doesn't get any more official.

 

[cybamerc]

Fox5:

NEC was rumored to co-develop a gfx chip for the GC2 - much like it did with GC.



Li Mu Bai:

> It doesn't get any more official.

Actually it does. Until you see a press release nothing is official. ATI providing the GC2 GPU isn't even official yet. The announcement regarding the technology agreement between ATI and Nintendo didn't specify a platform after all.

That said, GC2 will definitely have gfx by ATI and IBM sure seems to be the front runner for providing the CPU.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Fox5:

NEC was rumored to co-develop a gfx chip for the GC2 - much like it did with GC.



Li Mu Bai:

> It doesn't get any more official.

Actually it does. Until you see a press release nothing is official. ATI providing the GC2 GPU isn't even official yet. The announcement regarding the technology agreement between ATI and Nintendo didn't specify a platform after all.


That said, GC2 will definitely have gfx by ATI and IBM sure seems to be the front runner for providing the CPU.

Indeed there was in fact a press release by ATi cybamerc. Stating that the GPUs were being developed by different teams, with differing timetables, also that they may share some features as well. But that they would be distinct from one another due to respective company needs/goals. I simply could not locate the article.