Nintendo GOing Forward.

[Shifty Geezer]

What was the last meaningful hardware contribution from Nintendo? It can be argued that that Nintendo is long gone. And as for 'copycats', surely it's better to understand and match the improvements from one's competitors than to just ignore them. Nintendo should be copying MS and Sony's online, for example. A company that doesn't match rivals' innovations is a pretty dumb company, and a smart company not only copies takes R&D from anywhere and improves on it.

 

[Rodéric]

What was the last meaningful hardware contribution from Nintendo? It can be argued that that Nintendo is long gone. And as for 'copycats', surely it's better to understand and match the improvements from one's competitors than to just ignore them. Nintendo should be copying MS and Sony's online, for example. A company that doesn't match rivals' innovations is a pretty dumb company, and a smart company not only copies takes R&D from anywhere and improves on it.

Motion Control ?
Touch control ?
Motion Control + Rumble (and everyone know it was IMPOSSIBLE, SONY said so !) ?

As for Online, I agree, it's nice to work in isolation but keeping an eye on competitors is a good thing, although in that respect I think they should look at Steam not other consoles which are just... copycat again

mouahahahahahah !

(Wasn't clear enough I was teasing you without the laugh at the end I think...)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

mouahahahahahah !

(Wasn't clear enough I was teasing you without the laugh at the end I think...)

Teasing aside, what have Nintendo contributed of significance? It's an argument raised by N. fans that Nintendo innovate, but I don't think anything significant has happened in hardware from pretty much anyone in the past 15-20 years. There's been a fair bit of dabbling but nothing that has changed the gaming landscape. Nintendo's hardware is, seems to me, no longer anything special (actually generally below par), meaning other platforms offer as valid a home for their games. Is the innovative Nintendo spirit of old gone, or just misplaced trying ideas that aren't working (can't always have hits). In a slump, as it were? Is there room for hardware of significance to come from Nintendo to justify their continued hardware presence?

 

[BRiT]

Yup, I dont see any new innovations that have mattered from Nintendo ever since the original release of the Wii back on November 19, 2006. They've been dead in the water since then. Almost a decade of being irrelevant.

 

[wco81]

Maybe.

I guess they made the NES controller work and others improved on it.

Likewise the analog stick on the N64 controller was copied and improved upon.

Wii drew a lot of casuals in but couldn't keep them.

So the motion controllers have largely failed to capture the market and people have voted for the standard controller with D-pad, dual analog sticks, triggers.

 

[Grall]

Motion controls for games looks good on paper, but it translates poorly into real gameplay benefits. Stuff like lack of precision and drift can make motion controls inaccurate for anything more advanced than waggle-style gameplay, and for large, exciting motions (like swordplay for example) you obviously need lots of room to swing.

As physical beings and instinctively bound to our bodies and limbs as we are, button-and-stick controllers surprisingly seem the most effective tools to translate human input into on-screen actions. Not wands, gloves or any of the other shit we've tried to come up with to replicate motions into realtime computer animation.

 

[dobwal]

The NES was probably the most innovative product Nintendo ever produced.

 

[Grall]

Other than the joypad, what was really so revolutionary about the NES itself...? It differed fairly little from hardware that immediately preceded it.

 

[Rodéric]

In the past 15 years:
Dual Screens on a console (DS 2004)
Touch screen on a console (DS 2004)
Motion Control (Wii 2006)
Glass free 3D (3DS 2011)
Virtual Reality w/o being cut from reality (Wii U 2012)


(There are a lot of things from the NES, SNES & N64 era but that's longer ago . Like D-Pad, shoulder button, 4 controller ports, saved games, analog stick, rumble pack, GPU in a console, wireless controllers, ...)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In the past 15 years:
Dual Screens on a console (DS 2004)
Touch screen on a console (DS 2004)
Motion Control (Wii 2006)
Glass free 3D (3DS 2011)
Virtual Reality w/o being cut from reality (Wii U 2012)

All of which are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Dual screen provides nothing a larger screen doesn't - the 2DS is a single large screen partitioned. Touch screen on a console is mostly pointless as implemented. Motion control was unimportant like EyeToy (although it'll be important in VR, but I'm sure VR motion control existed before Wii). Glass free 3D was irrelevant and could never be a game changer as the gameplay is still tied to a window on the world. VR without being cut off from reality can't be true as that's not VR. You mean AR using the Wuublet as a window on the world, I presume? Which has existed in things like Invisimals on PSP before Wii U, and still isn't a game changer such that everyone else is getting in on the act, or games are all using it.

(There are a lot of things from the NES, SNES & N64 era but that's longer ago . Like D-Pad, shoulder button, 4 controller ports, saved games, analog stick, rumble pack, GPU in a console, wireless controllers, ...)

Right. At the beginnings of gaming with lots of room to develop new ideas, Nintendo were great. They've since lost their moxie. Or there just isn't space to come up with great ideas any more. Perhaps all the great, essential ideas have been had, and the only space for gaming hardware progress is niche things or VR?

 

[Rodéric]

All of which are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Dual screen provides nothing a larger screen doesn't - the 2DS is a single large screen partitioned.

mmmhhh... that's falacious, do you really use the two screens on your computer the same you would be using a big screen ? I doubt so...

Touch screen on a console is mostly pointless as implemented.

Except for games in which it's really well used, like Meteos on the DS, and probably other games, having options is also interesting for game designers, although most of them seem unable to innovate, likely because they grew up with existing pads and have a hard time thinking outside the box.

Motion control was unimportant like EyeToy (although it'll be important in VR, but I'm sure VR motion control existed before Wii).

Despite being used widely in the Wii, and Wii U ?
Despite being adopted by Sony ?
I will disagree here, it might not be as good as you expected but it's nice, though not as game changing as saved games...

Glass free 3D was irrelevant and could never be a game changer as the gameplay is still tied to a window on the world. VR without being cut off from reality can't be true as that's not VR. You mean AR using the Wuublet as a window on the world, I presume? Which has existed in things like Invisimals on PSP before Wii U, and still isn't a game changer such that everyone else is getting in on the act, or games are all using it.

Well those things can come together in some enhanced Wii U gamepad, having a 720p 3D screen you can move around is similar to the helmet, w/o the whole being cut off from reality which is a major problem to anyone with a family. But even as is, the Wii U gamepad provides VR before anyone else (Lacking 3D screen though.)

Right. At the beginnings of gaming with lots of room to develop new ideas, Nintendo were great. They've since lost their moxie. Or there just isn't space to come up with great ideas any more. Perhaps all the great, essential ideas have been had, and the only space for gaming hardware progress is niche things or VR?

I don't know that's a valid point, but maybe we are just used to how it is now and resistant to change, as well as unable to think outside the box...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

mmmhhh... that's falacious, do you really use the two screens on your computer the same you would be using a big screen ? I doubt so...

On a handheld. DS doesn't provide anything a tablet held portrait doesn't.

Except for games in which it's really well used, like Meteos on the DS, and probably other games...
Despite being used widely in the Wii, and Wii U ?
Despite being adopted by Sony ?
I will disagree here, it might not be as good as you expected but it's nice, though not as game changing as saved games...

Stuff N. invented is used very well on their platforms, but it hasn't become game-changing. None of these inventions have been essential to the progress of console gaming. Wii waggle was great fun, but it was a fad that even Nintendo abandoned as a dead end. That's very different to the invention of the thumbstick, say, which is now ubiquitous.

Well those things can come together in some enhanced Wii U gamepad, having a 720p 3D screen you can move around is similar to the helmet, w/o the whole being cut off from reality which is a major problem to anyone with a family.

That's not VR though. VR needs you to be virtually located somewhere else to the real world.

But even as is, the Wii U gamepad provides VR before anyone else (Lacking 3D screen though.)

iPad et al have had virtual world windows. Wii U was more Nintendo following tablet than innovating.

I don't know that's a valid point, but maybe we are just used to how it is now and resistant to change, as well as unable to think outside the box...

Whatever the reasons for a lack of new hardware ideas being adopted - whether limited game design ideas or these innovation not being that great in the long term - it means N. hasn't had a significant impact.

 

[Rodéric]

You're showing AR, the 3DS does AR, the Wii U is VR, it immerses you in a world that does not exist... (What games do)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You're showing AR, the 3DS does AR, the Wii U is VR, it immerses you in a world that does not exist... (What games do)

How is Wii U accomplishing VR without a stereoscopic headset?

 

[BRiT]

Roderic is obviously in his own Nintendo VR world where what they did matters. Clearly that world doesnt truly exist.

 

[Rodéric]

How is Wii U accomplishing VR without a stereoscopic headset?

You only need a screen & motion control to get a window to another world. Stereoscopy is not necessary but helps immerge you in the other world, as well as being cut-off from the real world.
(Which again is not something everyone wants, from what I got they are considering adding a camera in front of the Occulus to be able to blend the real world into the virtual one for exemple, which might double for AR...)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You only need a screen & motion control to get a window to another world. Stereoscopy is not necessary but helps immerge you in the other world, as well as being cut-off from the real world.

If you mean moving the Wuublet around as a window on a completely generated world and not overlaying the real world, that has existed on tablets. eg. This from 2011. Not to mention every top-down ball rolling game (2009). Nintendo certainly didn't invent it. And most importantly, it's not a Big Thing that every game is using. It's as relevant as EyeToy - great fun, nice idea, limited scope and not significant to the whole industry.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Nintendo certainly didn't invent it. And most importantly, it's not a Big Thing that every game is using. It's as relevant as EyeToy - great fun, nice idea, limited scope and not significant to the whole industry.

I agree, I don't think it's VR at all.

I'm not convinced think it's 'great fun' though, even my kids would sooner use the pro pad than the Gamepad (they're five and seven). While Nintendo have come up with some truly amazing innovations; having a side-tablet to a console is definitely not one of them.

 

[Nesh]

Maybe.

I guess they made the NES controller work and others improved on it.

Likewise the analog stick on the N64 controller was copied and improved upon.

Wii drew a lot of casuals in but couldn't keep them.

So the motion controllers have largely failed to capture the market and people have voted for the standard controller with D-pad, dual analog sticks, triggers.

The way I always saw it since Sony came into the picture, Sony made right what Nintendo did wrong. The N64's controller was one of the worst designs I have ever touched my hands on. The analog stick placement was bad, it was single, it didnt have the right tightness and it lacked rubber. The rumble function required an add-on. Sony made the Dual Shock which was miles better. The N64's analog was like a check box addition compared to the Dual Shock.

 

[Grall]

I'm sure VR motion control existed before Wii

There is this thing (and a bunch of variations thereof)... At least some of them have to be older than the Wii wand.