That second semester was tough, but I'm glad I stuck with it. It's really sunny out!
Nintendo GOing Forward.
- Thread starter Wynix
- Start date
If Nintendo want to be successful, they need a product that makes that populace say, "cool, I want one!"
Does any company ever create a product with anything but the intent that this will be the case? Nintendo was trying to do this with the Wii U, but it turned out that consumers did not have a popular opinion of the product. Every product they create is going to have the hopes of being very popular with consumers. If you simply gave gamers what they ask for, it will always be more of the same, and eventually consumers tire of products that are more of the same. The problem with Nintendo's novel innovations with their hardware is that they rarely make great use of their own hardware novelty. It wasn't until Zelda Skyward Sword that Nintendo really showcased how well their motion controls can be used in a traditional style game. Other than Nintendo Land, which is very Wii Sports in its appeal, its only now that Nintendo is making a true effort to properly implement the Gamepad into a game with Star Fox Zero. Way too much emphasis was put into control schemes that Nintendo uses in limited capacity, most of the time anyway.
Perhaps they will go cheap, and see just how far their IP's can take them if the hardware cost is low enough. $149 NX would be interesting.
I'm more suggesting that they can listen to their market and respond, rather than just trying something. If they won't listen to their existing market, they can only hope they find a new one, but that's fairly bonkers business practice (ask MS! Okay, MS fumbled and may have been onto something if they had been decisive).
Tell that to Sony? And how do you correlate that theory with all the new and exciting ideas tried over the years that gamers have snubbed in favour of same-old-same-old?
I'm not saying Nintendo should blindly follow the traditional hardcore model, but they need to scope their ideas around their markets. eg. Wii U's tablet probably wasn't a bad idea, but the execution wasn't at all what the market would have preferred outside of the family audience and the hardware was below power. Rather than create a small, power efficient box, create a decent sized box with a decent amount of grunt because that's what the market would prefer? Make it classy and svelte, not chunky and tinker-toy. Sell a ruggedised housing for family friendliness.
I think Nintendo feels that they cant compete with Sony and Microsoft in that market, at least not if they want to be profitable doing so. So they could do exactly as you describe, and as appealing as it might be for people like me, it would still likely be a Nintendo fan only box, while the Xbox and PlayStation are the more popular products with gaming market as a whole. I just cant see them fighting for this market if they know the realistic numbers would only be in the 20-30 million units sold, with the Xbox and PlayStation doing 2-3 times that number. Nintendo would still find its console last on third parties list of importance, and would be hard pressed to offer hardware at a profit that is competitive with its competitors.
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Deleted member 13524
Guest
Which is why the PS4 is flunking so hard and PC gaming is dead.
Oh wait no, that's not it.
IMHO there's nothing wrong with betting on a gimmick that may renew the attention on disinterested gamers or perhaps bring new people to gaming and expand the market.
But they better have a damn good performing and solid platform under it, because they absolutely need the core gamers.
Investing on what the core gamers want is much safer bet than trying new stuff to wider, casual audience.
For every Plants vs. Zombies, there are thousands of similar games which get zero attention, zero sales and financial losses, whereas the endless CoDs, Uncharteds and Halos have provided a steady stream of income to studios, publishers and console makers. There's just this demographic of X million loyal people that will buy those games, regardless of anything (assuming they didn't do a royal screw-up with the previous sequel).
Nintendo hit the jackpot with the Wii by appealing to the casuals. But casuals aren't loyal, and they've moved on to smartphone/tablet games already. And the casual market is so entrenched into people's lives through Play Store and App Store that I don't think Nintendo can get them back anymore. Besides we need to consider that right now, Nintendo is making a profit out of core games for the 3DS (Zelda, Monster Hunter, JRPGs e.g. Bravely Default, etc.).
So without a good performing and solid console again, they will get the Wii U results again.
east of eastside
Newcomer
Nintendo needs to focus on retro and nostalgia, not core gamers or taking a chance on bad gimmicks.
The fact that NX and NXDS will be brothers in a family of shared software (however, Iwata put it) is gimmick enough. Of course, a modernized OS, online, and store must be part of this.
Nintendo simply needs to design a couple of devices that will appeal to their existing audience (kids), people that played Nintendo, got older and still have the nostalgia, and PS4/X1 owners that would be willing to buy NX because it's in a lower price point category and offers exclusive Nintendo content.
If you're going to sell a console for $249 or $299 and it doesn't have to compete with PS4/X1 specs wise and just have graphics that look good by Nintendo cartoon standards, then you pick a technology that allows the machine to be sold at a profit (at least at some early point).
Nintendo should try to knock it out with controllers. Make two controllers a 3D one (which will come in the box) and an optional dedicated 2D controller. Simply make the best 3D and 2D controllers Nintendo has ever made with that iconic Nintendo look and feel. These will be major source of accessory revenue.
Lastly, major Amiibo support.
This device will succeed, sell and be profitable.
The fact that NX and NXDS will be brothers in a family of shared software (however, Iwata put it) is gimmick enough. Of course, a modernized OS, online, and store must be part of this.
Nintendo simply needs to design a couple of devices that will appeal to their existing audience (kids), people that played Nintendo, got older and still have the nostalgia, and PS4/X1 owners that would be willing to buy NX because it's in a lower price point category and offers exclusive Nintendo content.
If you're going to sell a console for $249 or $299 and it doesn't have to compete with PS4/X1 specs wise and just have graphics that look good by Nintendo cartoon standards, then you pick a technology that allows the machine to be sold at a profit (at least at some early point).
Nintendo should try to knock it out with controllers. Make two controllers a 3D one (which will come in the box) and an optional dedicated 2D controller. Simply make the best 3D and 2D controllers Nintendo has ever made with that iconic Nintendo look and feel. These will be major source of accessory revenue.
Lastly, major Amiibo support.
This device will succeed, sell and be profitable.
AMD don't have anything suitable for a handheld, at least going by their current stuff. Their most power efficient Jaguar based SoCs can just about make it into a tablet.
Perhaps they could make a dual core variant of Jaguar, clocked low, with a single GCN ALU cluster, that would do the trick (small form factor handheld, smallish battery, long life) but I can't help thinking about Imgtec.
Imgtec offer industry leading "handheld" graphics and can offer a complete SoC with their MIPs cores.
http://imgtec.com/mips/warrior/
Might be barking up the wrong tree, but two Imgtec based SoCs for handheld and console, with several times the GPU for the home console version, could allow a common technology base for both a handheld faster than the 3DS and a home console faster than the WiiU.
Edit: you could even scale up the memory: say 1 x 1GB 32-bit LPDDR4 for the handheld, 4 x 1GB LPDDR4 32-bit for the console version. That way you could maximise savings for both from large scale purchasing.
Perhaps they could make a dual core variant of Jaguar, clocked low, with a single GCN ALU cluster, that would do the trick (small form factor handheld, smallish battery, long life) but I can't help thinking about Imgtec.
Imgtec offer industry leading "handheld" graphics and can offer a complete SoC with their MIPs cores.
http://imgtec.com/mips/warrior/
Might be barking up the wrong tree, but two Imgtec based SoCs for handheld and console, with several times the GPU for the home console version, could allow a common technology base for both a handheld faster than the 3DS and a home console faster than the WiiU.
Edit: you could even scale up the memory: say 1 x 1GB 32-bit LPDDR4 for the handheld, 4 x 1GB LPDDR4 32-bit for the console version. That way you could maximise savings for both from large scale purchasing.
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Nintendo, in my view, tries to supply both. The 3DS was a way more powerful handheld than the DS, retained the dual screens, but added something new - 3D. (Which didn't set the world on fire but seems to work quite well now.) The WiiU is a way more powerful system than the Wii, and adds something new - the controller screen that allows both off TV, and asymmetric gameplay.
Nintendo is both critisised for innovating, and critisised for being too traditional in their games, not using the innovations enough.
Same-old-same-old is always going to have a reasonably stable audience, no matter what we're talking about - console games, films, cars, sofas, beer, pizza, and so on. But it is equally true that just doing more of the same is not going to be terribly attractive to people outside the core audience. You are competing about a pie of a given size, and arguably in this case shrinking. That can still be a profitable business of course, but....
Nintendo are betting on both horses going forward, they will develop for mobile platforms, essentially going third party publisher in the huge smart devices market, and they will offer a proprietary, curated platform dedicated to gaming. This seems like a pretty reasonable approach to me.
So what should their dedicated system offer? Well, physical controls seems a given. Being portable is always a benefit, but you could argue that they could prefer to attack this market from the mobile eco systems. Being stationary offers the benefit of relative freedom in controller design and the option of greater hardware power draw, but you could argue that for its size, this market would be overcrowded with three active competing players, offering reasonable ROI only to whoever manages to become dominant.
Personally I'm partial to the approach of having a reasonably powerful handheld system that can be connected with low latency to a big screen.
This would allow them to cater to the handheld console market, which is still quite big and where they absolutely dominate, and with todays technology they could offer a couch experience that is quite good for anyone but the dedicated only-the-most-realistic-gore-need-apply part of the market. If the Vita could have connected to a TV directly, would that have increased the appeal of the device and its games? I think so. And better technology only makes the concept more appealing.
Dedicated handheld, dedicated stationary, and in between - all approaches have their merits and problems. But by getting into the mobile market, Nintendo gains some freedom. They can try something that goes a bit outside the box, with a bit less fear of failure to impress the mass market, because they have already ensured that they will reach those consumers through other avenues if their dedicated device flops, and it would pay off nicely if it resonates.
There are lots of ways to leverage mobile to attack the living room, it's a lot of fun to think about.
My favourite way would be two separate, binary compatible devices, where games were platform aware. This would allow cross play for any game that chose to support it. Games would choose what they did, where.
Both systems would use the same card/ts, but mobile games would run at much higher resolutions on the home systems and you could continue to use the handheld as a controller if the game required unique inputs. If you plugged a handheld game into the home console, it would download HD texture packs to a fastish eMMC and up IQ automatically, as per the game developers settings.
So the home console would be a scaled up version of the hardware, binary compatible, but with no optical drive, no laptop HDD (though you could plug one in) and that would be 4 ~ 8 times as fast as the handheld. Let developers choose how they use the flexibility offered by these systems (e.g. local lan between handheld and console, where the same game services both users, and offscreen play lets you do unique things).
My favourite way would be two separate, binary compatible devices, where games were platform aware. This would allow cross play for any game that chose to support it. Games would choose what they did, where.
Both systems would use the same card/ts, but mobile games would run at much higher resolutions on the home systems and you could continue to use the handheld as a controller if the game required unique inputs. If you plugged a handheld game into the home console, it would download HD texture packs to a fastish eMMC and up IQ automatically, as per the game developers settings.
So the home console would be a scaled up version of the hardware, binary compatible, but with no optical drive, no laptop HDD (though you could plug one in) and that would be 4 ~ 8 times as fast as the handheld. Let developers choose how they use the flexibility offered by these systems (e.g. local lan between handheld and console, where the same game services both users, and offscreen play lets you do unique things).
There are a number of interesting variations on this theme for sure.
Enough speculation along these lines, and people will be disappointed if they bring out a vanilla PS4x2 box at $300. ;-) Seriously though, some lateral thinking on Nintendos wouldn't go amiss, from a technical interest point of view, so I actually hope there is some special twist to whatever they bring to the table. They seem to aim for that more in terms of experiences than technical features though.
Enough speculation along these lines, and people will be disappointed if they bring out a vanilla PS4x2 box at $300. ;-) Seriously though, some lateral thinking on Nintendos wouldn't go amiss, from a technical interest point of view, so I actually hope there is some special twist to whatever they bring to the table. They seem to aim for that more in terms of experiences than technical features though.
Nintendo Kills Wii-U TVii - http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/07/nintendo-will-pull-plug-on-wii-us-tvii-service-august-11/
In an announcement at both TVii's official support site and its Miiverse page, Nintendo confirmed that TVii, a TV Guide-style interface meant to help users sort through live and streaming video listings, would no longer function after August 11. "Every service has a life cycle, and it is time to focus our resources on other projects," the support site's FAQ read; we suppose that means Nintendo thinks a full three years is pushing it in terms of "life cycle."
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Sure seems to be on to a quick death after the announcement, not even 3 weeks notice to users.
In an announcement at both TVii's official support site and its Miiverse page, Nintendo confirmed that TVii, a TV Guide-style interface meant to help users sort through live and streaming video listings, would no longer function after August 11. "Every service has a life cycle, and it is time to focus our resources on other projects," the support site's FAQ read; we suppose that means Nintendo thinks a full three years is pushing it in terms of "life cycle."
~~~
Sure seems to be on to a quick death after the announcement, not even 3 weeks notice to users.
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Deleted member 86764
Guest
Apparently WiiU's lifetime sales have broken 10m:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-07-29-nintendo-posts-a-profit-splatoon-sells-1-62m
Scary that's it's only just happened and that they're releasing their next machine in 12-18 months.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-07-29-nintendo-posts-a-profit-splatoon-sells-1-62m
Scary that's it's only just happened and that they're releasing their next machine in 12-18 months.
21.74M sales, try again nay sayerAnd rumors said Nintendo were ordering 20M NX systems for their first year...? Good luck with that!
What were Gamecube's lifetime sales, 12M? 14-16M?
Indeed that device saw three christmass
http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/And rumors said Nintendo were ordering 20M NX systems for their first year...? Good luck with that!
What were Gamecube's lifetime sales, 12M? 14-16M?
21 millions.
The 1 million 3DS (after the launch of the super cheap 2DS and the new 3DS) does not sound that good to me contrary to NIntendo claims.
Digging a tad more on the topic of the DS/handheld it seems to me that price could clearly be the main reason for slowing sales. One will argue that it is (free) mobile gaming that altered the sales but it was so immature and sucky a couples of years ago.
It is interesting to do look at the year to date sales of the DS and 3DS (using VGchartz tools) and looks also at the system prices. It seems to me that the DS had its best years following the introduction of the DSlite, systems introduced later failed to sustain or increase the sales of the system. The DSi was the cheapest DS unveiled (129$), the original starter @149$ then the DSi line bumped to price to 170$ and 190$.
I believe the right price now is 99$ for a handheld, all the jazz about phones and tablets killing the market is just that jazz. NB Mobile games are getting good, fremium starts to find its pace, but that is actually an extremely recent trend: a couple years ago phones and tablets alike battery life were dreadful, performances all over the place, and the software /games were not necessarily in a better place.
It is pretty clear to me that the market is calling for cheaper devices, as a side note, most of the times (and I guess wealthy parents aside) I still see lots of kids using DS, refresh cycle was killed by the higher price of the newer models which in turn make you wonder some more about the value of BC in that context (I'm not saying it has none).
It is interesting to do look at the year to date sales of the DS and 3DS (using VGchartz tools) and looks also at the system prices. It seems to me that the DS had its best years following the introduction of the DSlite, systems introduced later failed to sustain or increase the sales of the system. The DSi was the cheapest DS unveiled (129$), the original starter @149$ then the DSi line bumped to price to 170$ and 190$.
I believe the right price now is 99$ for a handheld, all the jazz about phones and tablets killing the market is just that jazz. NB Mobile games are getting good, fremium starts to find its pace, but that is actually an extremely recent trend: a couple years ago phones and tablets alike battery life were dreadful, performances all over the place, and the software /games were not necessarily in a better place.
It is pretty clear to me that the market is calling for cheaper devices, as a side note, most of the times (and I guess wealthy parents aside) I still see lots of kids using DS, refresh cycle was killed by the higher price of the newer models which in turn make you wonder some more about the value of BC in that context (I'm not saying it has none).
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The day Nintendo goes Software only is the day we stop having improvement in gaming controls
You can thank Nintendo for having the pads you have today, pretty much everything you use extensively comes from Nintendo...
No we need Nintendo to make hardware, if only to have the other two copycat do their usual job for gamers benefit...
