Nintendo GOing Forward.

[orangpelupa]

cant nintendo release android phone* and put Nintendo Market alongside Play Store?
All of Nintendo game wont be available on play store, its still Nintendo exclusive.

*maybe looks like N-Gage? the fail-phone from Nokia that actually pretty good to be used to play game but super bad for buying and changing game.Or maybe a DSphone. Its looks like NDS NDSi NDSlite 3DS, but its also a phone.

btw what sony has done in Xperia phone/psp hybrid also looks good, but i hear the faux analog is not good.

 

[tuna]

Yes, follow those failed experiments....

 

[Cjail]

Some of you guys would bankrupt Nintendo is very short order.

Please make names.

As well as the PS4 is selling, we don't know yet if Sony is making money or not. If the PS4 is selling at a loss, and it could be, coupled with a large marketing expense, Sony could post huge losses while the gaming community praises them for their success.

According to this PS4 hardware it's already profitable.

Nintendo's long term strategy is more sound that either Sony or Microsoft.

What long therm strategy?
Ninty strategy it's to ship another Zelda and Mario in 2015.
No sign that they want to commit to third parties, cloud gaming or even basic online gaming or VR.
Ninty's plan for now it's to deliver more of the same AND less than the competition.
I see no log therm strategy to be frank.

Nintendo could choose to drop out of the hardware market anytime it wants, lose the headache of trying to make money on hardware, something that is becoming very tough to do, and be very profitable for the foreseeable future.

Sure but they are not NOT dropping the WIiU until after 2015.
Nity might not let go WIiU for the next 2 years, which could be potentially disastrous.

Nintendo wont let the hardware side of their business bleed them dry, but at the same time they know its more profitable to sell software on their own hardware.

If they are smart they will let he hardware go but I think only after great pressure form concerned investors and a change of CEO.

In a few years I do believe Nintendo could offer a portable platform that also offers a solid console experience. I do believe mobile/tablet hardware will progress to the point where people wont need or want to purchase dedicated gaming hardware. I think before this generation ends for the PS4 and X1, tablets and phones will be capable of running the majority of games. You buy a wireless controller, hook up your phone/tablet to an hdmi chord, and download the newest COD, AC, Batman and so on. Nintendo can be ahead of the curve on this one by offering a mobile platform that does this. Its not a long term sustainable business since tablets and phones will eventually take over, but its a business model that could keep them in the hardware market for at least one more gen. After that, I doubt there is any way for Nintendo to create hardware and have it be profitable, and that's when they can become software only. If they wanted to, they could still offer propriety controllers for their games.

Dedicated gaming hardware will be replaced by cloud gaming but Nity it's not investing in it.

 

[wco81]

It just depends on how cheap and pervasive phones and tablets become.

If parents are routinely buying phones and tablets for their kids, say by the time they're around 10 or so, it'll be very difficult for Nintendo to sell portable gaming players.

In that landscape, there's no point in putting out new hardware. But in Japan, it seems they favor more expensive phones -- iPhone is big there -- so parents may not be inclined to buy $600-700 phones for their kids.

 

[Goodtwin]

Cloud gaming is a joke, the latency from even stellar connections is a problem. Having lots of bandwidth wouldn't be the problem, its the latency that would kill the experience.

Nintendo's long term strategy is to be one of the worlds largest videogame software publishers. Nintendo has a ton of very attractive IP's under their belt, and a ton of very talented studios that make top notch software. The biggest software titles on the Xbox and Playstation are typically third party multi plat games, so if those games were one day offered on platforms that don't require roytalty fee's, then both the Xbox and Playstation brands have very little to fall on. Sony is in better shape since they have stronger first party studios, but neither Sony nor Microsoft own nearly as many quality development teams as Nintendo does. Nintendo could also write its own check, they could score an incredible deal with any hardware manufacture to have Nintendo's software exclusive to their console. Nintendo's long term health is fine thanks to their strengths in software.

 

[Cjail]

Cloud gaming is a joke, the latency from even stellar connections is a problem. Having lots of bandwidth wouldn't be the problem, its the latency that would kill the experience.

What's the alternative then?
How do you think they are going to provide the needed power in a home hardware for an accessible price despite the physical limitations?

Nintendo's long term strategy is to be one of the worlds largest videogame software publishers. Nintendo has a ton of very attractive IP's under their belt, and a ton of very talented studios that make top notch software

Easier said than done.
EVERY publisher on the planet wants that anyway.

The biggest software titles on the Xbox and Playstation are typically third party multi plat games, so if those games were one day offered on platforms that don't require roytalty fee's, then both the Xbox and Playstation brands have very little to fall on. Sony is in better shape since they have stronger first party studios, but neither Sony nor Microsoft own nearly as many quality development teams as Nintendo does.

That's debatable...hopefully not here on B3D.

Nintendo could also write its own check, they could score an incredible deal with any hardware manufacture to have Nintendo's software exclusive to their console. Nintendo's long term health is fine thanks to their strengths in software.

Only if they decide to go third party.

 

[Cjail]

Double post, sorry.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

cant nintendo release android phone* and put Nintendo Market alongside Play Store?

Technically it's possible. Sony has its own PS store on its phones, for example, and of course Samsung has its own app store.

As well as the PS4 is selling, we don't know yet if Sony is making money or not... Nintendo's long term strategy is more sound that either Sony or Microsoft.

I'm completely with cjail on this. 1) we know PS4 is profitable. You probably don't know that because you probably don't follow anything other than Nintendo in th gaming space. 2) What long term strategy?! To release a handful of games over a couple of years to a small platform? They haven't outlined any long term strategy. They haven't even got much medium term strategy considering the biggest E3 Wii U showings that got most gamers' attention were strongly 2015 based.

Cloud gaming is a joke, the latency from even stellar connections is a problem.

DF report 34ms latency and 6ms decode latency. Other websites show latency is an issue being addressed. A lot depends on network connection of course, but it's rapidly diminishing as a bottleneck.

Nintendo's long term strategy is to be one of the worlds largest videogame software publishers.

Surely the way to be that is to release on as many platforms as possible and reach as many people as possible?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

In that landscape, there's no point in putting out new hardware. But in Japan, it seems they favor more expensive phones -- iPhone is big there -- so parents may not be inclined to buy $600-700 phones for their kids.

iPhone is actually relatively cheap in Japan compared to other countries. You'll pay like 70.000 yen for the phone alone on a 2 year contract. That is the same as I got charged for my HTC One. Then there is another 5 ~ 6000 yen a month if you want data but that is charged regardless of the model of phone you buy.

Anyway Japanese phone companies, just like all other large Japanese companies offering public services, should be intensely hated and given as little business as possible if you are living here. Inefficient, overpriced and nothing can ever be done in an easy and sensible way (No I don't want to take that wifi cube with me, I won't use it. What? What do you mean I HAVE to take it home with me??)

 

[Cjail]

Apparently Iwata's approval has gone up this year. source

That's worrisome IMO because it's Iwata's fault if Ninty it's in trouble and he has not presented a single valid way to boost WiiU sales or ensure Ninty a solid position for the next coming years.

 

[Wynix]

It only went up 3%, the more notable number is this:

Iwata, 2013:
Approve: 772,384
Oppose: 218,960
Approval Rating: 77.26%

Iwata, 2014:
Approve: 777,999
Oppose: 169,240
Approval Rating: 80.64%

~50k less oppose but only 5k of those shifted to Approve.

 

[Goodtwin]

Technically it's possible. Sony has its own PS store on its phones, for example, and of course Samsung has its own app store.

I'm completely with cjail on this. 1) we know PS4 is profitable. You probably don't know that because you probably don't follow anything other than Nintendo in th gaming space. 2) What long term strategy?! To release a handful of games over a couple of years to a small platform? They haven't outlined any long term strategy. They haven't even got much medium term strategy considering the biggest E3 Wii U showings that got most gamers' attention were strongly 2015 based. Sony lost over a billion dollars for the fiscal year, and looks to continue the trend unless Sony makes big dollars on the PS4, something I doubt will happen until they start releasing high profile first party games that put up big numbers. Obviously I follow Nintendo more so than the other two since I am a Nintendo fan, but I am also aware that Sony and Microsoft's biggest games of this years E3 were for 2015, so calling out Nintendo for their E3 lineup is pretty foolish. Wii U had the far stronger 2014 lineup at E3. Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors and Smash Bros all coming out this year. Not to mention MK8 and DKC TF already released this year. Wii U has a far stronger exclusive lineup of software in 2014 than either Sony or Microsoft.

DF report 34ms latency and 6ms decode latency. Other websites show latency is an issue being addressed. A lot depends on network connection of course, but it's rapidly diminishing as a bottleneck. You think that's a good mean average of connection quality in general? Just because some people have excellent connections, the majority of people are run of the mill Cable or DSL connections ( here in the US anyway), and getting less than 100ms.

Surely the way to be that is to release on as many platforms as possible and reach as many people as possible? Eventually, yes, I think Nintendo will go software only. I just don't think they will do that before releasing at least one more piece of hardware. After a huge success with the Wii, I seriously doubt Nintendo wants to throw in the towel on hardware so quickly. [/QUOTE]


Nintendo can afford to take another stab at the hardware market. I believe their dominance in the portable market is what makes a hybrid system a viable option for them. Basically allowing Nintendo to be ahead of the curve. Eventually your tablet will be a wireless controller and HDMI connection away from offering a console experience. So if the worlds most popular games were to be offered on Android and Apple, then I could see the dedicated console market shrinking rather quickly. If this hybrid system could act as a tablet, portable gaming device, and console when in front of the TV, that should be a very attractive product.

 

[ShyGuy]

Apparently Iwata's approval has gone up this year. source

That's worrisome IMO because it's Iwata's fault if Ninty it's in trouble and he has not presented a single valid way to boost WiiU sales or ensure Ninty a solid position for the next coming years.

I do wonder what future people see for Nintendo if Iwata left today ?. Do you want someone to come in and say "let's go straight after Sony and MS" ?.

Let's say they do just that, abandon WiiU after the currently in development software is released and they announce a brand new console which is more powerful than PS4 at E3 2016 for release that same November. They would be almost certainly losing at least $100 per box sold and 30 million console sales behind PS4/XB1 or both, all the while fighting a losing battle to try and persuade third party publishers to port games to their new system with a tiny install base of hardcore Nintendo fans who have shown time and time again to only be interested in Nintendo games on Nintendo consoles.

It would almost certainly just be another Gamecube situation. Nintendo's best strategy is to go in the complete opposite direction to Sony and MS's expensive consoles with their $100 million + AAA cinematic experiences and carve out their own market like they did with the original Wii instead of fighting for a third of an ever shrinking 'hardcore' console market.

Iwata lead the development and release of DS, Wii and 3DS. Three incredibly successful consoles (3DS will hit 70 million units by the time they stop selling it). I think he deserves more than one flop and at least another generation to put things right. His recent comments about unified hardware architectures, developers working much closer together than before along with ways of creating more value for consumers in terms of getting them to purchase more software is very encouraging for their next set of consoles.

Besides, if Iwata left today he would more than likely just be replaced by someone on the board who is very 'Iwata-minded' anyway. Not much would change.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Surely the way to be that is to release on as many platforms as possible and reach as many people as possible? Eventually, yes, I think Nintendo will go software only. I just don't think they will do that before releasing at least one more piece of hardware. After a huge success with the Wii, I seriously doubt Nintendo wants to throw in the towel on hardware so quickly.

Right, but what's their hardware strategy?! You've described the issues hardware faces. Nintendo aren't going to have a box that appeals to the core because that's already covered and they'll be too late to the game. They're getting squeezed by mobile in the handheld space, which is also encroaching on the home console space via ****TV. What is Nintendo going to release in 2015/2016 and how will it compete against the entrenched PS4 and XB1 and the up-and-coming mobile-based systems? AFAICT your belief is that Nintendo will produce a niche console that sells a few million and then become software only. If they're going to become software only, why not start that now instead of wasting a lot of money on a new hardware platform? As you say, hardware is expensive and difficult!

If this hybrid system could act as a tablet, portable gaming device, and console when in front of the TV, that should be a very attractive product.

If it's Nintendo's product, it'll likely only run Nintendo games. I wouldn't want a Nintendo tablet instead of an iPad or Android. Nor would I want to use Nintendo's media services instead of whatever's on offer on the appropriate app stores. Whereas Nintendo games on an iPad and Android tablet that also runs iOSTV/Android TV via a box and shares library and works on-the-go on my iPhone/Android phone is a far more attractive proposition, no?

 

[Goodtwin]

Right, but what's their hardware strategy?! You've described the issues hardware faces. Nintendo aren't going to have a box that appeals to the core because that's already covered and they'll be too late to the game. They're getting squeezed by mobile in the handheld space, which is also encroaching on the home console space via ****TV. What is Nintendo going to release in 2015/2016 and how will it compete against the entrenched PS4 and XB1 and the up-and-coming mobile-based systems? AFAICT your belief is that Nintendo will produce a niche console that sells a few million and then become software only. If they're going to become software only, why not start that now instead of wasting a lot of money on a new hardware platform? As you say, hardware is expensive and difficult!

If it's Nintendo's product, it'll likely only run Nintendo games. I wouldn't want a Nintendo tablet instead of an iPad or Android. Nor would I want to use Nintendo's media services instead of whatever's on offer on the appropriate app stores. Whereas Nintendo games on an iPad and Android tablet that also runs iOSTV/Android TV via a box and shares library and works on-the-go on my iPhone/Android phone is a far more attractive proposition, no?

For it to be a big success, I agree that Nintendo cant use its own propriety OS. Now if they were to use the Android or Apple OS, which is what I think they should do personally, but its Nintendo so I doubt that will happen, but you never know.

Im not saying Nintendo should or shouldn't choose to go with a product that is limited to niche status, but its Nintendo, and if they can do things their way, and still be profitable in doing so, that seems to be a consistent pattern with the company.

 

[Fourth Storm]

The smartphone app market is incredibly bloody and there is little evidence that $40-$60 games are going to attract many more users than the ones who already see value in their products and buy their hardware to play it. Yes, it can be argued that anything is better than the miserable installed base they are currently reveling in, however there are indications that Nintendo have done some research as to what type of hardware people wish to use and carry around. The idea of a "non-wearable" device is evidence of this as is their shifting definition of "platform" towards the notion of anyone with a NNID. Web-based apps such as Mario Kart TV and the development of Nintendo Web Framework might be seen as the first steps towards a future Nintendo which includes hardware, but is not bound by it.

A move to smart devices would also effectively pull Nintendo out of retail stores. I know things are bad in the U.K., and I don't know where you guys reside, but here in the States, they still enjoy quite a large presence at all the major stores. Nintendo, at heart, are a toy company. If anything, they are looking to expand their in-store presence through Amiibo and additional hardware form-factors using the so-called unified architecture.

I certainly acknowledge that smart phone development may one day be an inevitability, but there are still uncertainties in the market. Do people want to carry around bulky controller shells for their sleek new gadget? How much freedom to innovate in that area would Nintendo enjoy under the authority of Google and Apple?

 

[wco81]

Nintendo can't make devices with iOS so Android would be the only option.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The smartphone app market is incredibly bloody and there is little evidence that $40-$60 games are going to attract many more users than the ones who already see value in their products and buy their hardware to play it.

That's looking at it the wrong way. Are the n million users who'd pay $40 for a Nintendo game. Yes. Would those people suddenly be unwilling to pay exactly the same amount of money for the same game on an Android device? Why? Doesn't make sense. If Nintendo announced that they were only going to release on Android, why would everyone who wants to play Layton and Kirby et al suddenly decide those games are now only worth $2?

I doubt $40 would be particularly acceptable, but Nintendo could charge more like $20 and still make a good profit as the margins are large, and selling ot potentially 10x the audience means lots more money. SE is releasing games above $10 for example. It's where the industry has to be headed, because A-AAA titles are unsustainable in the present mobile space.

 

[Cjail]

Nintendo's best strategy is to go in the complete opposite direction to Sony and MS's expensive consoles with their $100 million + AAA cinematic experiences and carve out their own market like they did with the original Wii instead of fighting for a third of an ever shrinking 'hardcore' console market.

Whatever demographic they decide to target it must be big enough to sustain them.
If they want to target "causal/non gamers" again then the best place to go it's mobile and tablet since "casual/non gamers" have moved there anyway.

By the way neither Sony and MS are committed only to 7-8 digits AAA games so Ninty won't have the luxury to have the casual/non-gamers market only for itself.

 

[Fourth Storm]

That's looking at it the wrong way. Are the n million users who'd pay $40 for a Nintendo game. Yes. Would those people suddenly be unwilling to pay exactly the same amount of money for the same game on an Android device? Why? Doesn't make sense. If Nintendo announced that they were only going to release on Android, why would everyone who wants to play Layton and Kirby et al suddenly decide those games are now only worth $2?

I doubt $40 would be particularly acceptable, but Nintendo could charge more like $20 and still make a good profit as the margins are large, and selling ot potentially 10x the audience means lots more money. SE is releasing games above $10 for example. It's where the industry has to be headed, because A-AAA titles are unsustainable in the present mobile space.

Maybe. Maybe not. If Nintendo were at the mercy of Google, their capability to iterate on their classic franchises could potentially be diminished. People look forward to the new Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Zelda, and such in part due to the promise of enhanced graphics. I am not familiar with the APIs used in Android programming, but I see many more games that feature lowest common denominator graphics than those that push technical boundaries. Nintendo would have to decide what their baseline device is and accept that users with devices below that baseline will play the game with a crappy framerate. Or not at all? Again, I'm not incredibly familiar with how things work on Android so please forgive me and correct me where I'm wrong. The only solution I see to this is if they worked out an exclusive deal with a manufacturer like Samsung and just developed games around the specs of the oldest phone still available. Who knows how that would work...

There's also still the issue of controls and potential restrictions there. Nintendo were fools to go back to traditional controls with Wii U. They listened to AAA developers and it didn't work for them. Then again, we have seen the failure of touch in their core franchises with Zelda. Wii Remote was the perfect balance.

So what we are left with is Nintendo being limited in making graphical advances and limited in their ability to offer unique hardware and control options. I believe in Nintendo as a software developer, but we have already seen franchise fatigue set in for some of their longer running series where advancement in these areas has lacked. Again, it may be the only way in the future, but I cannot blame Nintendo for wanting to try anything and everything to avoid that fate.