NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*
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I have read a couple of different places that MS has agreements in place with many software developers/publishers which require the producers of content to place a equal if not higher emphasis on 360 versus PS3 multiplatform titles. supposedly this is partially responsible for the disparities that exist with many cross platform titles. If this is true isn't reasonable to expect that developers would produce IPs that ran equal across both platforms even if the 720 isn't as powerful?
In that scenario MS could leverage the agreements that they have in place and use the savings generated by not having the best hardware to offer something like a Kinect 2.0 and offer consumers experiences which are equally stunning and have additional features that can't be found on other platforms.
Sony's strategy of producing 1st party titles that push their hardware would likely be as ineffective in the next round as it was this generation. That at least is the perception although the installed base of both platforms is nearly equal at this point but consumers in North America seem to strongly favor MS over Sony.
If MS has these sorts of agreements they may very well focus on generating enough of a visual upgrade to justify the investment in new hardware and nothing more but we don't really know how much of an improvement is necessary especially if the a competitor's advantage wasn't perceived anyway.
And for the record personally I really enjoyed many of Sony's first parties and I really hope that they continue to invest in interesting IPs that can make for interesting experiences. It was frustrating at times to see really good IPs overlooked bc they were exclusive to Sony.
In that scenario MS could leverage the agreements that they have in place and use the savings generated by not having the best hardware to offer something like a Kinect 2.0 and offer consumers experiences which are equally stunning and have additional features that can't be found on other platforms.
Sony's strategy of producing 1st party titles that push their hardware would likely be as ineffective in the next round as it was this generation. That at least is the perception although the installed base of both platforms is nearly equal at this point but consumers in North America seem to strongly favor MS over Sony.
If MS has these sorts of agreements they may very well focus on generating enough of a visual upgrade to justify the investment in new hardware and nothing more but we don't really know how much of an improvement is necessary especially if the a competitor's advantage wasn't perceived anyway.
And for the record personally I really enjoyed many of Sony's first parties and I really hope that they continue to invest in interesting IPs that can make for interesting experiences. It was frustrating at times to see really good IPs overlooked bc they were exclusive to Sony.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Patently untrue. If it were true you wouldn't see near parity between PS3 and X360 currently. Especially considering how far apart they were near the beginning of the generation. If that conspiracy theory was correct you'd still see a massive gap in performance and quality between the two platforms.
It is entirely down to PS3 being inherently harder to get good performance when it first launched versus X360 which was relatively easy due to similarity of developement to PC. In other words due mostly to the more mature and robust developement tools available on X360 at the beginning of the generation compared to the PS3.
As the generation went on, the quality and performance gap closed as more mature developement tools came out for the PS3 as well as a better understanding of how to leverage Cell to minimize the performance pitfalls inherent in RSX.
No other explanation is needed.
The only thing MS paid for was exclusives either timed or otherwise.
Regards,
SB
Bagel seed
Veteran
Pretty sure it was true. Even in the simplest case of Blu-ray having more space, some devs have alluded to keeping content off of it that could've easily been put in because it didn't fit DVD, and MS wouldn't sign off on it if the game didn't maintain parity. Only when games where the PS3 version came out much later were they able to add extras for it. See Bioshock.
That's why even if Orbis is more powerful, even if twice as powerful, I'd doubt any truly noticeable advantage would allowed to be given there.
Eurogamer article on it here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-why-microsoft-wont-publish-psn-firsts
That's why even if Orbis is more powerful, even if twice as powerful, I'd doubt any truly noticeable advantage would allowed to be given there.
Eurogamer article on it here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-why-microsoft-wont-publish-psn-firsts
UGH!!!!!!!!
MS used to require that the Xbox version of a title, have unique features before they'd approve it, but no one is going to ham string a PS whatever version cause MS says so.
If it's Kaz Hirai's strategy from the start, they may have parallel efforts based on the PC-like architecture all along. After all, their Vaio division is used to building different laptops at the same time -- from poor man's versions to Vaio Z. ... and RT, Android devices.
We did hear a few developer complains last year. May be MS have their good reasons, but I remember reading some articles and developer remarks on this from the developers' perspectives. Whether it's true and intentional, it's probably hard to nail down without having them all in the same room.
I've got a story to tell you about the "Moon Landing."
Doesn't tell me whether Orbis has additional Compute Units. These stories are independent and unrelated.
Bagel seed
Veteran
Purposefully demand PS3 version to be gimped? No. Be at least equal to in features and relative quality? Yes.
We never got to really see anything significant this gen since both consoles were more or less equal after some experience and improved kits but how much leeway will there be next gen?
If there's a supposed 50% jump or whatever, or let's say 100% for shits and giggles, do you think MS will allow a 60fps to appear on Orbis? Would that not be considered feature-different enough? It'll be interesting to see if this 3rd party mandate sticks around.
We never got to really see anything significant this gen since both consoles were more or less equal after some experience and improved kits but how much leeway will there be next gen?
If there's a supposed 50% jump or whatever, or let's say 100% for shits and giggles, do you think MS will allow a 60fps to appear on Orbis? Would that not be considered feature-different enough? It'll be interesting to see if this 3rd party mandate sticks around.
I asked if MS had agreements in place which required parity and speculated about the impact of such agreements on future hardware decisions by MS... Then someone posted a link to an article which was consistent with my post and original question/comment.
Why don't you address the article or say why you don't think its true??? Not trying to be a jerk but nobody has presented anything which objectively says such agreements are not in place. Again this is just a question on my part, I'm not a developer and I have no way of knowing hence the question.
Edit:
If true parity or near parity favoring 360 is exactly what I would expect at this phase; at launch poor tools would lead to better 360 performance and later bigger installed base justify more resources going towards that version but in recent years as PS3 installed base approaches 360 and as better tools become available ports would come out slightly favoring 360 or be essentially equal which is exactly what we see if a developer doesn't want to see MS prevent the release. (assuming the rumor is true)
Large important IPs like Final Fantasy bc of the blow back of course not be held back because not having the IP would be worse for MS than simply not releasing the port.
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I think there's a danger of taking customization to mean 'power'.
The leaked 720 appears to be a 'set-top box + games console'.
I haven't seen anything that explains what the PS4 is intended to be.
A large part of the 720 design will be concerned with how to channel data around properly within the system - AFAIK both kinect and HDMI are high bandwidth, and the 720 does not want to lose gaming performance because it's recording a HD channel.
So it seems possible/likely that the customized GPU and components are partly/largely concerned with removing any trace of the set-top-box/kinect activities from gaming performance.
But that's just an educated guess - and I suspect the PS4 has some 'hook' which is going to eat into it's performance...
(for what it's worth the 720 sounds an extremely compelling device for the living room)
You were reading what though? The opinions of people who are also reading the sam rumours like you and me. There have been numerable leaks saying that the custom block would make the difference yet you ignore those?
The DME as it is called is undefined, to say that the DME won't provide comprable performance to the PS4 is based on what exactly, a complete lack of understanding in what it actually is?
Averagejoe
Regular
Yes but also leaks,some which has been double source check as well.
Well nothing is 100% accurate,but the 720 will need some fairy strong hot sauce to make up for the gap,after all this 2 GPU are from the same vendor and re not generations away one from another.
Also what about the PS4 suppose helper as well,is not like the PS4 doesn't have any doesn't that also weight against the 720.?
What leaks have been double source checked, what do you mean? I don't know what the DME is so I can't presume it to be nothing or everything but you've made your mind based on what? And can you provide the leaks that state the PS4 includes custom blocks that assist the GPU.
First, the RAM (68GB/s bandwidth) is not slow. It's design to work with embedded SRAM. This time around the embedded SRAM is more functional all around compare to 360 eDRAM. Nintendo been using this sort of technique since Gamecube. I believe Wii U uses the same technique to be able to overcome its 13GB/s main memory bandwidth.
Certain Dev like Crytek asked for 8GB minimum. The only affordable solution for 8GB of RAM is DDR3. More memory is a good thing. You can have bigger assets, you can pre calculate more stuff and put in that space. Maybe 1.2TF and 8GB RAM + 32MB eSRAM is a nice optimised ratio for given graphic fidelity for MS.
At this point I'm more worried with Orbis only having 4GB, even if that RAM chips are GDDR5. It's like PS3 RSX with eDRAM and not having GDDR3 but relied solely on the 256MB XDR. PS3 Multiplatform titles usually comes out worse in terms of assets, it would look much worse if PS3 only have 256MB XDR, even if it has more bandwidth.
Multiplat Devs will most likely uses the extra performance of Orbis to squeeze in the assets into its smaller memory, you know higher compression, calculate some stuff in real time instead, etc, etc, just to have parity with Durango version.
This is similar to 360 and PS3, but at much worse scale. Sony need to put another 2GB minimum, 4GB would be good. If not they'll just build another expensive console that are perceived as having inferior ports.
Averagejoe
Regular
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-next-gen-xbox-specs-leak
Eurogamer confirmed some of the rumors with their source and appear legit to them.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console
Eurogamer also say something about the PS4,i did not make mi mind i just use common sense since there is not fairy dust that boost performance magically if AMD had such a thing Nvidia and Intel would be screwed by now,i do believe on things to help the GPU reach it max potential that is something that happen with the PS3.
In fact if i have to believe one rumor over another i take the PS4,not because i made my mind or are extremely biased in favor of it,but because sony already did this,Cell was a great help for the RSX in more ways than just 1.
In fact all this helper module thing look like a page pull from Cell if you ask me,maybe MS add something seeing how good sony was able to do with a weak GPU like the RSX,it would not be the first time,we know the 360 had 10MB Edram,something like it was on the Emotion engine on the PS2 which had 4MB..
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