Next Xbox for debut at E3 2012?

I want to be clear, I'm not saying it's a bad idea - I'm just saying that it's not practical for the majority of households to replace PCs with an Xbox...that's all. I used to have a split-screen TV but those are becoming less common and vastly more expensive (well when I last replaced my TV 18mths ago anyway).

As I said, the main issue is TV time, maybe because there's 6 of us I see things differently...but I hardly get any time on the TV as it is without using it as a PC monitor as well!
 
There has been a new statement that there should be (at least) a new system out by early 2014 (so launching fall 2013 is likely). A new xbox a new PS? May be both.
 
There has been a new statement that there should be (at least) a new system out by early 2014 (so launching fall 2013 is likely). A new xbox a new PS? May be both.

So they (Sony and MS) will leave nintendo 2 years or more free?

It sound like Wii U = ps2 than Dreamcast ...ps3 = 8 years age and x360, 9 years old !
 
So they (Sony and MS) will leave nintendo 2 years or more free?

It sound like Wii U = ps2 than Dreamcast ...

(ps3 = 8 years age and x360, 9 years!)
Well it says there will be a new console by early 2014, it's likely to launch fall 2013. The WiiU launchs next april so in any case it's 1 year and a half already.
I kinf of agree Sony and Ms have to be ready in case the WiiU is as successful as xbox in its early life they may fight a ~15millions instal base deficit. It all comes down to what the WiiU can achieve and the kind of hardware MS and Sony have in mind for the next products. If the difference is a mere X2 well (assuming N catch up quickly in online sevices) 1.5 year could be a lot.
 
So they (Sony and MS) will leave nintendo 2 years or more free?

It sound like Wii U = ps2 than Dreamcast ...ps3 = 8 years age and x360, 9 years old !

Maybe, if the PS2 was only as powerful as an N64 when it came out. There's plenty Sony and MS can do to spoil the WiiU launch and convince people to wait for the "real" next generation. Like showing tech demos of what their massively more powerful hardware will be capable of and cutting prices and denigrating the idea of spending $300 to play ports of games you can get on a $150 Xbox.
 
Maybe, if the PS2 was only as powerful as an N64 when it came out. There's plenty Sony and MS can do to spoil the WiiU launch and convince people to wait for the "real" next generation. Like showing tech demos of what their massively more powerful hardware will be capable of and cutting prices and denigrating the idea of spending $300 to play ports of games you can get on a $150 Xbox.

Good point, because sony and ms will probably have hope to use the best graphics creating "hype" making many waiting for supposedly "more powerful consoles" ... in this case making a Wii U new Dreamcast.

Another possibility is that sony and ms may deepen "too much" concept "wii like" and aimed at reaching the audience that Nintendo seems to be giving (casual), and in this case sony and ms may be entering an even bigger trouble competing with Apple devices ...


And the next chess movement ..nintendo can make an even bigger mess reducing console life cycle for 4 years ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Good point, because sony and ms will probably hope to use the best graphics creating "hype" making many waiting for supposedly "more powerful consoles" ... in this case making a Wii U new Dreamcast.

Another possibility is that sony and ms may deepen "too much" concept "wii like" and aimed at reaching the audience that Nintendo seems to be giving (casual), and in this case sony and ms may be entering an even bigger trouble competing with Apple devices ...


And the next move of the chess nintendo can make an even bigger mess reducing console life cycle for 4 years ...

Imagine if the Wii launched first in 2005 and the 360 launched later along with the PS3? Do you think the hype of the 360's and the PS3's graphical prowess would have made the Wii less successful than the current reality.

With the Wii-U launching first, giving it a 1 year head start is hardly going to be a circumstance easily overcomed by Sony and MS. The Wii-U's predecessor sold way more than the Saturn, so this is more like the PS2 launching early than the GC or Xbox than the DC launching early than the PS2. Nintendo isn't hurting for money so MS and Sony can't depend on Nintendo pulling a Sega and discontinuing the Wii-U.

When was the last time manufacturer took the #1 console crown by launching later than current crown holder?
 
Assuming that most wii owners are just waiting to upgrade to wiiu is probably a mistake. They might not be starting at 0 with a new launch but I expect the vast majority of their 80+ million users will need to be convinced again.

Every generation is different. Comparing to what has happened in the past isn't all that useful.
 
Assuming that most wii owners are just waiting to upgrade to wiiu is probably a mistake. They might not be starting at 0 with a new launch but I expect the vast majority of their 80+ million users will need to be convinced again.

Every generation is different. Comparing to what has happened in the past isn't all that useful.
Indeed I expect Nintendo user base to be pretty volatile.
 
They might not be starting at 0 with a new launch but I expect the vast majority of their 80+ million users will need to be convinced again.
Especially considering most of their userbase seems to be non-core that are new to gaming and probably don't care much about graphics and mostly went for the motion controls. Having even that downgraded with the new remote probably won't make them rush for the upgraded machine.
 
I don't consider that the PS3 launched early than the Wii with only a 20 day head start in Japan, a 3 day head start in the US and over 3 months behind in the EU.
So to not make things uncomfortable we completely ignore XB that got released more than a year before Wii? :)
 
Assuming that most wii owners are just waiting to upgrade to wiiu is probably a mistake. They might not be starting at 0 with a new launch but I expect the vast majority of their 80+ million users will need to be convinced again.

Every generation is different. Comparing to what has happened in the past isn't all that useful.

True, under the circumstance that people use past historical events and create very superficial beliefs around them. Like that a new optical media with heavy studio supports equals win. But when looking at historical significant facts as weighted variables in a equation that relate to sales, one can predict the future outcome more readily than using a crystal 8-ball.

Plus, looking at past history to try to predict the future is a whole lot better than incorporating one's individual preferences and expousing such beliefs as universal tenents. The most major of these false tenents is that better graphics equals more sales. I am sorry but we B3Ders aren't the biggest fan of the Wii nor are we part of the mainstream crowd, so I weigh our opinions downward when trying to look objectively at the console market and overall sales.

No one is assuming most wii owners are just waiting to upgrade to the wiiu. But past history tells us that most console owners tend to be brand loyalist and that the dominant manufacturer must make major mistakes to be alleviated of its position.

The PS3 didn't automatically garner support from the total PS2 userbase. But look at what it did to lose that support. It had to offer a new console that was 1.7X to 2X more expensive than the PS2 with limited availability for the cheaper version. It lost exclusivity of prominent third party IPs which had been major differentiators between its and its competitors libraries. Major exclusives were mostly first party IPs, which might have been enough if it weren't for the fact that its strongest IPs like GT, GOW, KZ and SOCOM took 2 years or more to show up.

Now, exactly what is it about the Wii-U that will contribute to a less than top selling console? Lack of visual prowess? The Wii got by on that by simply introducing a new gameplay mechanic. Am I now suppose to believe that the Wii-U will be hampered by lack of competiveness in terms of graphics? There are no obvious flaws that make me believe that the Wii-U will fail to recapture the crown.

One of major issue that disallow easy illumination of the potential flaws of the Nintendo strategy is the inability to compare to the other next gen consoles. Nintendo decision with the N64 can be easily seen when knowing the route Sony took with the PS1. Maybe, the Xbox3 and the PS4 will enlighten us to fatalistic flaws in Nintendo strategy. But given what we know and what we don't know, its hard for me to say that Nintendo won't take the crown this gen. Since historically its takes at least 2 generation for a manufacturer to get so full of themselves that they empty a full clip into their big toe.
 
So to not make things uncomfortable we completely ignore XB that got released more than a year before Wii? :)

Was the Xbox the market leader the previous gen?

When was the last time manufacturer took the #1 console crown by launching later than current crown holder?
 
Imagine if the Wii launched first in 2005 and the 360 launched later along with the PS3? Do you think the hype of the 360's and the PS3's graphical prowess would have made the Wii less successful than the current reality.

With the Wii-U launching first, giving it a 1 year head start is hardly going to be a circumstance easily overcomed by Sony and MS. The Wii-U's predecessor sold way more than the Saturn, so this is more like the PS2 launching early than the GC or Xbox than the DC launching early than the PS2. Nintendo isn't hurting for money so MS and Sony can't depend on Nintendo pulling a Sega and discontinuing the Wii-U.

When was the last time manufacturer took the #1 console crown by launching later than current crown holder?


SNES ? Launched in 1990 fierce competition against Megadrive/Genesis(1989) coming to first at end 1994 if not my mystake(Colecovision in 1982 against Atari 2600 VCS launched 1977).

Good point too, so it is possible .. and how we are trying to find parallels to anticipate the next moves and sincerely is an interesting exercise possibilities.

And it seems that wii U has some signs and a context similar to ps2 (from the great success of the psone with more than 90 million as of 2000) and is free for the next move, but the Wii U looks somewhat signaling search a core gamer and leaving the mass casual gamer for Apple devices ... seems an admission of failure to face this fierce competitor ... as we are speculating : perhaps even the stock market has noticed this with significant losses after announcement next console.

On the other hand ... sony and ms have indeed a very intense work to show something really significant compared to wii U (4 times or more at least) if this does not happen.. we will have a "new ps2" released one year and half to two years before ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
SNES ? Launched in 1990 fierce competition against Megadrive/Genesis coming to first end 1994 if not my mystake(Colecovision in 1982 against Atari 2600 VCS launched 1977).

My recollection may be off but the MegaDrive did not outsell the SNES nor did the Colecovision outsell the Atari 2600.

One could point to the Atari 5200 (launched in 1984) and the NES which launched in japan in 1983. But the NES didn't launch outside of the Japan until 1985 and by then Atari had stop manufacturing consoles.

Maybe my question is worded confusingly. I am simply asking when was the last time a console became the dominant marketl eader when launched later than a competing console whose predessor was the market leader?

Good point too, so it is possible .. and how we are trying to find parallels to anticipate the next moves and sincerely is an interesting exercise in possibilities.

And it seems that U wii has some signs and a context similar to ps2 (from the great success of the psone with more than 90 million as of 2000) and is free for the next move, but the Wii U looks somewhat signaling search a core gamer search and leaving the mass casual gamer for Apple devices ... seems an admission of failure to face this fierce competitor ... as we are speculating : perhaps even the stock market has noticed this with significant losses after announcement next console.

No, I don't think Nintendo is giving up mass casual gamers but simply using a earlier launch and deeper incorporation of third party software in terms of marketing to pull core gamers into the fold. Since no one expects next gen from MS or Sony (outside of me) to release a console until late 2013, that gives Nintendo a year before we see anything (even demos or mockups) from the other two to persuade core gamers as well as a year before anyone else launch to continue to persuade core gamers.

Nintendo has 50% of the console market while Sony and MS has 25% apiece. Nintendo is looking for growth so its simply targeting Sony and MS marketshare which has a bigger representation of core gamers.
 
No one is assuming most wii owners are just waiting to upgrade to the wiiu. But past history tells us that most console owners tend to be brand loyalist and that the dominant manufacturer must make major mistakes to be alleviated of its position.

No, it doesn't. There's probably a subset of brand loyalists within the group, but suggest it's 'most' based on historical data is ridiculous, in fact we can see quite the opposite. Most PS2 owners have definitely not bought a PS3. I also doubt that most xbox or gc owners bought the brand sequels.

There will be people that want the mario games, and there will be people that want to stick with live or psn or whatever game, but most? Prove it.

The PS3 didn't automatically garner support from the total PS2 userbase. But look at what it did to lose that support. It had to offer a new console that was 1.7X to 2X more expensive than the PS2 with limited availability for the cheaper version. It lost exclusivity of prominent third party IPs which had been major differentiators between its and its competitors libraries. Major exclusives were mostly first party IPs, which might have been enough if it weren't for the fact that its strongest IPs like GT, GOW, KZ and SOCOM took 2 years or more to show up.

And what has kept those people from buying now that the ps3 price is lower and the games are out 5 years later?

All this has shown is that the wii and the xbox360 have been much stronger competitors than in the past. Much of the casual audience was certainly initially captured by the Wii. 5 years later, kinect and move and flagging wii sales.

Now, exactly what is it about the Wii-U that will contribute to a less than top selling console? Lack of visual prowess? The Wii got by on that by simply introducing a new gameplay mechanic. Am I now suppose to believe that the Wii-U will be hampered by lack of competiveness in terms of graphics? There are no obvious flaws that make me believe that the Wii-U will fail to recapture the crown.

People bought the Wii for a variety of reasons, is there anything specific about the WiiU that will make most them believe they need a new one? Nintendo sold people on the active standing interactive stuff, MS and Sony have both now encroached on that territory. Nintendo is hoping to get ports of ps360 games, that doesn't mean they'll get ports of next gen titles.

Nintendo has already said they are going to launch at a higher price point than they did last time. This alone could be a barrier. The new controller may not resonate with past wii users. There's a lot of questions about it. Wii sales were incredibly impressive for the first 3 years, decent into the 4th, and they have begun to flag substantially. Perhaps the audience is looking for the WiiU, but perhaps they have just moved on to Kinect or Move.

One of major issue that disallow easy illumination of the potential flaws of the Nintendo strategy is the inability to compare to the other next gen consoles. Nintendo decision with the N64 can be easily seen when knowing the route Sony took with the PS1. Maybe, the Xbox3 and the PS4 will enlighten us to fatalistic flaws in Nintendo strategy. But given what we know and what we don't know, its hard for me to say that Nintendo won't take the crown this gen. Since historically its takes at least 2 generation for a manufacturer to get so full of themselves that they empty a full clip into their big toe.

Without a compelling online experience they are already likely to miss their target of bringing back core gamers or pull the ps360 audience to their console. People aren't buying COD for the 5 hour solo campaign.

The WiiU may very well be the 'winner' in the next generation, but there's nothing in history that suggests it's immune from failure.
 
The WiiU's major downfall will be a lack of online infrastructure that's competitive to Xbox live. That's the major differentiator between the 360 and Ps3. For instance, I don't see anyone leaving the Xbox just to play Call of Duty on WiiU, when that experience is going to be superior on the 360. Unless you get 3rd parties to develop content titles exclusively for the WiiU ( and I mean really big releases like the next major Final Fantasy, Metal Gear or Resident Evil or something ) I don't think Nintendo has a hope and prayer in catching Microsoft with the "hardcore" crowd.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top