Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [pre E3 2019]

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anexanhume

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What exactly do you think would be the tasks to be performed by this dedicated PSVR2 SoC, considering it would need such an exquisite cooling setup?

I just can't see why a SoC would even be needed, much less one that would need a cooling setup that surpasses even those vapor chamber heatsinks we're seeing on gaming phones with a Snapdragon 855.

Anything on the order of a tablet’s TDP. Local processing has to be done for a wireless system, particularly one with eye tracking.



For a >100W SoC with HBM underneath, the smaller side-B heatsink would provide cooling for the memory while a more conventional and larger side-A heatsink (+ fan) would cool the SoC.
The point for this would be to 3D-stack the HBM and SoC to forego the need for an interposer and its packaging costs, while at the same time preventing the memory stacks from overheating.

Why else would someone use this heatsink arrangement?

The image shown does not include space for a topside heatsink, instead depicting an antenna. Additionally, it suggests EMI compatibility is enhanced in this application. If your memory clocks are in your transmission band (read: you’re not 5GHz or 60GHz), switching noise could degrade receiver sensitivity.

I’d also ask you exactly what problem they’re solving if they can fit a traditional heatsink on top of the package?
 
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Shortbread

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Possible PS5 DS5 controller leak from 4chan. *add lots of salt where needed*

1553552867344u7k4s.jpg


Seems to have an LCD touchscreen perhaps (oddly enough what I'm praying for). If true, the patent we seen months ago could be related to this design.
 
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anexanhume

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Possible PS5 DS5 controller leak from 4chan. *add lots of salt where needed*

1553552867344u7k4s.jpg


Seems to have an LCD touchscreen perhaps (oddly enough what I'm praying for). If true, the patent we seen months ago could be related to this design.
I really hope the panel with e-ink substrate comes to fruition. Imagine a panel that you could personalize with a “screen saver” or that could periodically update with system notifications.
 

DSoup

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I really hope the panel with e-ink substrate comes to fruition. Imagine a panel that you could personalize with a “screen saver” or that could periodically update with system notifications.

Reading about PS5 firmware updates that "improve system stability" on the controller would be game changing. :runaway:

The discussion about the benefits of controller screens generally end with the same question; if the system or game needs to tell me something, why I do need to look away from the big screen I'm already looking at? :-?
 

DieH@rd

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if the system or game needs to tell me something, why I do need to look away from the big screen I'm already looking at? :-?
Obviously to see some sickness straight from the mind of Yoko Taro [he does his best writing and concepts when he's drunk] in some nextgen Nier sequel.

Don't ignore the potential of the controller display. It can be used in fun ways, not only for OS/game UI/stats.
 

Tkumpathenurpahl

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Reading about PS5 firmware updates that "improve system stability" on the controller would be game changing. :runaway:

The discussion about the benefits of controller screens generally end with the same question; if the system or game needs to tell me something, why I do need to look away from the big screen I'm already looking at? :-?

Because the image on the big screen would be more satisfying if HUD free, but, since we can't feel the character's health, and the weight of their ammo pouch, we need the information conveying somehow. A secondary screen is probably the most straightforward way.
 

MrFox

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The discussion about the benefits of controller screens generally end with the same question; if the system or game needs to tell me something, why I do need to look away from the big screen I'm already looking at? :-?
Any strategy based couch multiplayer. Any card games, board games, some sports games.
 

fuboi

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Because the image on the big screen would be more satisfying if HUD free, but, since we can't feel the character's health, and the weight of their ammo pouch, we need the information conveying somehow. A secondary screen is probably the most straightforward way.

Make the controller screen transparent so I can hold it over my eyes for a more artisanal HUD experience. Include an eye-patch with the console to avoid parallax issues.
 

DSoup

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Because the image on the big screen would be more satisfying if HUD free, but, since we can't feel the character's health, and the weight of their ammo pouch, we need the information conveying somehow. A secondary screen is probably the most straightforward way.

There are a lot of design options for this and some games offer them. Configurable HUDs are becoming more commonplace and animation and sound effects are able to convey a lot about the player character's condition. I personally think games overdo this.

The only time I ever found a second screen experience compelling was Zombi U on the Wii U because the only way to manage your inventory was to look down at gamepad just as though you were looking into a bag and thus taking your eyes off your surroundings, which added to the tension. The screen on the DualShock would be really small, necessarily low resolution (cost) and if always on you'd have a battery life worse than launch DualShock 4 on PS4.

Any strategy based couch multiplayer. Any card games, board games, some sports games.

I wonder if there is enough couch co-op in the world to make this viable as a cost that every PS4 owner has to bear. This is really what did in for Kinect - that and Kinect did little for games.
 
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Deleted member 13524

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Anything on the order of a tablet’s TDP. Local processing has to be done for a wireless system, particularly one with eye tracking.
What local processing needs to be done on a Virtual Reality Headset that requires a tablet's TDP?
That's what I'm asking, because there are already some 60GHz wireless adapters in the market for the Vive and Oculus, and none of them seem to need a heatsink, let alone a super complicated cooling system that crosses to the other side of the PCB.

So with the wireless modem out of the way, what are you expecting the PSVR2 unit to process that all the current Vive, Oculus and Windows Mixed Reality headsets don't need to?


The image shown does not include space for a topside heatsink, instead depicting an antenna. Additionally, it suggests EMI compatibility is enhanced in this application.
Where have you seen a translation for the patent? The texts in english are scarce and make no mention of antennas.


I’d also ask you exactly what problem they’re solving if they can fit a traditional heatsink on top of the package?
The problem of not being able to effectively cool down the ICs in the bottom when 3D stacking.


Possible PS5 DS5 controller leak from 4chan. *add lots of salt where needed*


Seems to have an LCD touchscreen perhaps (oddly enough what I'm praying for). If true, the patent we seen months ago could be related to this design.

To be honest, that looks like a very generic 3rd party controller. One that doesn't even have wireless functionality.
 

MrFox

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I wonder if there is enough couch co-op in the world to make this viable as a cost that every PS4 owner has to bear. This is really what did in for Kinect - that and Kinect did little for games.
I don't know whether it's a reasonable expense to add a screen but it's not as expensive as people think.

Kinect added $100 on the BOM. This would be like $1 for an LCD of that size.

E-ink is probably too expensive (as far as I know). It would be extremely low power. I'd hate that since I play in the dark on a projector.

OLED would be fine for power consumption, with guidelines for minimal outline graphics. But I think it would be $3 or more. The classic cyan monochrome p-oled would look nice though.
 

DSoup

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Kinect added $100 on the BOM. This would be like $1 for an LCD of that size.

No. Not for a screen, new touchscreen (touchscreen and touchpad are very different), APU with display controller, RAM and ROM plus extra hit to battery.
 

MrFox

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No. Not for a screen, new touchscreen (touchscreen and touchpad are very different), APU with display controller, RAM and ROM plus extra hit to battery.
Oh right, forgot the touchscreen, so $2 ?

What's your BOM for this?

There isn't really a hit on rom, ram, and the lcd controller for a simple 160x128 is integrated, usually a cheap SPI. Any micro controller is a negligible cost nowadays. It's cents.

Chinese suppliers show a ridiculous low price on those but they don't have touch.
 

DSoup

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Oh right, forgot the touchscreen, so $2 ?

What's your BOM for this?

That depends on what the expectation is for the screen quality. What controller chip are you proposing to put in and where can you source them in bulk for less than $4? Who is making these custom sized LCD screens and how are you going to protect this from the kind of abuse the a regular controller suffers?
 

Shortbread

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You guy's are missing the big point here (i.e., PS5 streaming). You can finish your gaming session from the comforts of your own crapper. Yes, the DS5 LCD inclusion is '4-The-Players' suffering from Taco Bell squirts.:yep2::mrgreen:
 

anexanhume

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What local processing needs to be done on a Virtual Reality Headset that requires a tablet's TDP?
That's what I'm asking, because there are already some 60GHz wireless adapters in the market for the Vive and Oculus, and none of them seem to need a heatsink, let alone a super complicated cooling system that crosses to the other side of the PCB.

This is demonstrably not true.

The Magic Leap One has a heatsink and a fan.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Magic+Leap+One+Teardown/112245

Vive Pro has copper foil

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HTC+Vive+Pro+Teardown/106064

Oculus Go has heatsinking as well

https://mindtribe.com/2018/09/oculus-go-teardown/

Where have you seen a translation for the patent? The texts in english are scarce and make no mention of antennas.

The google translate is intelligible.

It is referred to as “transmission / reception module.” It also references inverters, LEDs and motors. Not something you’d expect in proximity to a console SoC.

The problem of not being able to effectively cool down the ICs in the bottom when 3D stacking.

Why would this problem exist in the first place? HBM is currently cooled topside on graphics cards with 300W TDP. Do we think this solution is easier to accomplish than 2.5D interposer solution?
 

MrFox

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That depends on what the expectation is for the screen quality. What controller chip are you proposing to put in and where can you source them in bulk for less than $4? Who is making these custom sized LCD screens and how are you going to protect this from the kind of abuse the a regular controller suffers?
I was thinking the bare minimum, an STN monochrome, a chip-on-glass row/column driver, SPI interface, led backlight.

The controller already drives a bluetooth module and audio buffer, gyros, accelerometers, usb... It has more than enough to send data coming from bluetooth to the SPI bus. The little controller needs 4 more gpio. There isn't much to add, unless they go with a high resolution 65k screen.
 
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