Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Frenetic Pony]

So there's the 48Cu RDNA 2.0 chip for Xbox, fairly predictable.

$600 cost since they're going with separate 4k and 1080p machines? ($600 and $400, 24Cu for the lower one?)

 

[DavidGraham]

Except MS has never compared GPU power this way. And they gave Gamespot exclusive access pre-reveal. You think there’d be 0 exchange about the story they planned to run before pub?

A 5700XT is exactly two times the performance of Xbox One X, and about 8 times the performance of One S. That math works. Anything else doesn't work.

 

[anexanhume]

A 5700XT is exactly two times the performance of Xbox One X, and about 8 times the performance of One S. That math works. Anything else doesn't work.

Except the raw TF, just as @BRiT already posted...

Tom Warren’s explicit claim of 12TF also predates this multiplier talk. No journalist or claimed insider is disputing the 12TF number now that it’s out there.

 

[Shortbread]

Per Kleegamefan...
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...ion-launch-thread-ot7-nm.148625/post-27352939

*wise fwom your gwave*

OMG where are all the Xbox insider evangelicals to clarify all this

NO it’s not GCN flops

YES it’s Navi flops

Xbox Series X performance is actually slightly ABOVE 12(Navi) TFs

Xbox (Anaconda) Series X eats monsters (Scorpio) for breakfast

The GCN architecture is HISTORY, y’all. MS/Sony only talk in terms of RDNA now

Ay Carumba

Now I’m actually leaving for sure.

I will return to talk about Next gen again after the PS5 reveal.

Buh-bye

 

[Shortbread]

PS5 reveal in February, per Klee...

 

[DavidGraham]

Tom Warren’s explicit claim of 12TF also predates this multiplier talk. No journalist or claimed insider is disputing the 12TF number now that it’s out there.

They are not technically oriented people, they don't understand the nitty gritty difference, and they are also parroting each other a lot.

Their sources most probably spoke about a GPU that is equal to a 12TF traditional GCN GPU, and they parroted those numbers out. I would trust an official word from an official representative much more than unconfirmed rumors.

People need to taper down their expectations.

 

[BRiT]

Klee also said once again it's a bit over 12 TF Navi ... https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...ion-launch-thread-ot7-nm.148625/post-27353359

Xbox Series X(holy fuck what a bad name) is Anaconda and has a bit over 12TF ( Navi) performance

 

[Proelite]

They are not technically oriented people, they don't understand the nitty gritty difference, and they are also parroting each other a lot.

Their sources most probably spoke about a GPU that is equal to a 12TF traditional GCN GPU, and they parroted those numbers out. I would trust an official word from an official representative much more than unconfirmed rumors.

People need to taper down their expectations.

You're going to be disappointed.

 

[DavidGraham]

New Klee also said once again it's a bit over 12 TF Navi ... https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...ion-launch-thread-ot7-nm.148625/post-27353359

So we are at a conflict here. Official vs non official, If that unofficial is true, then Phil Spencer is either sandbagging, or speaking about a custom RDNA GPU that is castrated in other departments, like Texturing/Fill Rate/Geometry while retaining it's compute advantage.

 

[Xbat]

So we are at a conflict here. Official vs non official, If that unofficial is true, then Phil Spencer is either sandbagging, or speaking about a custom RDNA GPU that is castrated in other departments, like Texturing/Fill Rate/Geometry while retaining it's compute advantage.

Or his keeping it simple for the filthy masses.

 

[Mskx]

Hmm? Does this from the Series X blog/press release mean anything?

"Additionally, our patented Variable Rate Shading (VRS) technology will allow developers to get even more out of the Xbox Series X GPU."

OUR patented VRS tech? Does Xbox have some sort of propietary version of VRS?

 

[Mitchings]

Hmm? Does this from the Series X blog/press release mean anything?

"Additionally, our patented Variable Rate Shading (VRS) technology will allow developers to get even more out of the Xbox Series X GPU."

OUR patented VRS tech? Does Xbox have some sort of propietary version of VRS?

I'm wondering if they're just referring to the Tier-1/2 VRS available in DirectX which Microsoft implement; and they're simply wording it well. Or if they do, as you imply, have additional proprietary methods via software/hardware support.

Klee says both consoles have VRS and I'd presume that Sony will be able to utilise similar methods via their own API if the hardware supports it.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

Our vaguely worded patent has a different name to your vaguely worded patent. En garde!

 

[anexanhume]

They are not technically oriented people, they don't understand the nitty gritty difference, and they are also parroting each other a lot.

Their sources most probably spoke about a GPU that is equal to a 12TF traditional GCN GPU, and they parroted those numbers out. I would trust an official word from an official representative much more than unconfirmed rumors.

People need to taper down their expectations.

So this non technically oriented person extrapolated to 12TF all by their lonesome, or their source expressed it in equivalent terms and completely neglected to provide the background explanation for their numbers? Either way, you’re still taking a leap of faith someone got something wrong here when the potential to be more clear was abundantly available. This is no longer an issue of dev kits where a Vega part at 12TF could be misinterpreted as representative of the final GPU. This is literally the end product, and you’re saying they’re misrepresenting it when that’s never happened before.

This talk of architecture efficiency and equivalent FLOPs is an argument that has been constructed on forums and chat rooms completely on the internet, and removed from the industry. We’ve grafted those terms into industry discussions because it’s become so pervasive and normalized that it feels consistent. We’ve added complexity and nuance to the discussion, and now we’re operating on a reverse Occam’s razor principle.

I think some people are rationalizing it this way because 12TF just doesn’t seem believable to them. However, we have no idea what Big Navi looks like yet, and Nvidia hasn’t even revealed their 7nm arch yet. We may well get 20TF flagship GPUs in 2020 and the comparative basis of that mindset should melt away. There’s so many assumed rules and boundaries people are just taking at face value that consoles can’t violate, and yet MS has plainly just revealed a SFF PC looking console that is markedly different than any other ‘console’ product the market has seen to date.

Look at the size of that thing. It’s clearly cooling a level of consumption heretofore unseen in consoles.

 

[goonergaz]

Look at the size of that thing. It’s clearly cooling a level of consumption heretofore unseen in consoles.

It's actually around the same volume as the X...and the One had a bigger volume and we know how powerful that wasn't.

 

[PSman1700]

However, we have no idea what Big Navi looks like yet, and Nvidia hasn’t even revealed their 7nm arch yet. We may well get 20TF flagship GPUs in 2020 and the comparative basis of that mindset should melt away.

Have to agree, we are essentially comparing 2018 gpu's to a 2020 console. By late 2020 it is mid-range hardware, which isn't too strange as that happened last time too.

Look at the size of that thing.

It's a square, not like the picture shown here? Or can the tower be laid down vertical? It's basically a pre-built pc from here on.
This time around MS has the more powerfull device.

 

[goonergaz]

They are not technically oriented people, they don't understand the nitty gritty difference, and they are also parroting each other a lot.

Their sources most probably spoke about a GPU that is equal to a 12TF traditional GCN GPU, and they parroted those numbers out. I would trust an official word from an official representative much more than unconfirmed rumors.

People need to taper down their expectations.

FWIW I tend to agree. Either way there's some confusion somewhere...either;

A) They told Phil it was 12TF and he did some bad math and bad publicity or
B) They told Phil it was more than 8x the XBO and/or 2x the X and everyone else is doing bad math

To me it seems a bit like a car and comparing MPH to KMPH and a similar confusion. If I live in the UK and have a Ford Fiesta that has a top speed of 100 and then I read an announcement that the new Ford has a 20% higher top speed I will be thinking 120MPH, but for some reason people are happy to use 160KPHM?

I just don't see why if it's actually more like 2.5x the X then that wasn't used...because that's the better PR.

 

[PSman1700]

He said twice as powerfull gpu, which falls in line with the 5700xt, and it's below 10TF.

 

[anexanhume]

It's actually around the same volume as the X...and the One had a bigger volume and we know how powerful that wasn't.

The sizing is completely different to be more conducive to airflow along the longest dimension of the box as opposed to perpendicular to it. It's a very different approach.

 

[goonergaz]

He said twice as powerfull gpu, which falls in line with the 5700xt, and it's below 10TF.

Yes, 12TF in old money ~10TF in new.