The technical next-gen thread is for discussing hardware specs based on consideration of the viability of various technologies. Seeing as people want to discuss launch strategies, let's move that discussion here.
Next Generation hardware release strategy *spawn
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
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All this wild speculation, how about another take on the 2 tier model idea.
Xbox is taking as many of the good bits of pc as Microsoft can cram in there. We have FreeSync making unlocked framerates viable, we have already got the S which is slightly more performant than the base console. This or a larger delta and FreeSync might make a nice pro combo.
With that in mind, my two spec launch will be
Base unit.
Whatever CU on chip with 10% deactivated for yield as normal
Memory
Cpu
Regular build
Stuff
Pro unit
Cherry picked Apu with no CU deactivated, similar to Xbox One X Dev kits.
Better cooler
Slightly higher CPU clocks?
Other nice marketing friendly changes
The idea that is does not devalue the base until for thoes who want the traditional TV fixed framerate gaming experience, pro for thoes who want to try and eek out the max and happy with new tech like FreeSync. And keep it simple for Devs, the game will already be tested on device kits with more spec and simulated retail spec, this unit could also drop down to base performance where required
Xbox is taking as many of the good bits of pc as Microsoft can cram in there. We have FreeSync making unlocked framerates viable, we have already got the S which is slightly more performant than the base console. This or a larger delta and FreeSync might make a nice pro combo.
With that in mind, my two spec launch will be
Base unit.
Whatever CU on chip with 10% deactivated for yield as normal
Memory
Cpu
Regular build
Stuff
Pro unit
Cherry picked Apu with no CU deactivated, similar to Xbox One X Dev kits.
Better cooler
Slightly higher CPU clocks?
Other nice marketing friendly changes
The idea that is does not devalue the base until for thoes who want the traditional TV fixed framerate gaming experience, pro for thoes who want to try and eek out the max and happy with new tech like FreeSync. And keep it simple for Devs, the game will already be tested on device kits with more spec and simulated retail spec, this unit could also drop down to base performance where required
In the multi-tier sku, what I wish would happen (but know it never will) is the following 2 tiers:
1. Base Model SKU
The draw to the bare bone model is for the enthusiast console gamers to provide a loweer cost of entry while getting rid of items unused, immediately discarded, or simply upgrafed or replaced.
The trouble is how to ensure the bare bone doesnt make its way into unknowing parent shopping carts.
1. Base Model SKU
- Internal drive for game storage with easy accessible port
- Game controller
- Cheap headset with mic
- Free trial of online gaming service
- No internal storage, but easily accessible port
- No game controller
- No headset
- No free trial of online gaming service
The draw to the bare bone model is for the enthusiast console gamers to provide a loweer cost of entry while getting rid of items unused, immediately discarded, or simply upgrafed or replaced.
The trouble is how to ensure the bare bone doesnt make its way into unknowing parent shopping carts.
My solution to that was to have the bare bones only sold direct from the console company. They all have online stores you can buy hardware from, so it should be no hassle. Lack of a game controller is only good if the new controllers aren't improvements, but I guess if you already have an XB1 elite controller, you aren't in the market for anything else.
Business wise, I think a two-tier approach would need a significantly better top product at a significantly higher price. A moderately better product at a marginally higher price is just muddying the market and not really wanted.
Business wise, I think a two-tier approach would need a significantly better top product at a significantly higher price. A moderately better product at a marginally higher price is just muddying the market and not really wanted.
why not differentiate two SKU's not only by performance but also overall focus, e.g.:
Media SKU
- optical drive for BR/DVD/CD
- audio output support for the latest DD, dts
- large mechanical HDD included
- base performance
Gaming SKU
- no optical drive
- audio output only PCM
- no HDD/SSD included
- better performance
What kind of performance increase can be obtained in "Gaming SKU" without optical drive plus required licensing for BR/DVD/CD/DD/dts and without HDD if same launch price is targeted?
Media SKU
- optical drive for BR/DVD/CD
- audio output support for the latest DD, dts
- large mechanical HDD included
- base performance
Gaming SKU
- no optical drive
- audio output only PCM
- no HDD/SSD included
- better performance
What kind of performance increase can be obtained in "Gaming SKU" without optical drive plus required licensing for BR/DVD/CD/DD/dts and without HDD if same launch price is targeted?
You don't want to reduce the gaming experience on the media-focussed SKU. That'd piss off gamers who want the all-in-one box, who'd have to choose between whether they want movies or better games. Give them the best of both worlds - the gaming SKU should just be cheaper.
Of course they could buy an add-on optical drive with software license, it can be cleverly integrated into the case in the same way as you can easily change HDD on PS4.
And performace difference between the two would be mainly in framerates, when media targeting 30 fps and gaming 60 fps/ VR headsets, so no eye-candy would be lost.
Why, I quite enjoy gaming with my audio output in uncompressed 2.0(TV) / 7.1(AVR) PCM. Does anybody use DD as output for gaming audio?
Anecdotal, but around here everyone using a 4K TV also has the AVR or SoundBar setup that does far more than PCM, notable focus is on Dolby Atmos now.
ahh ok, could be also added via licence into my idea of "gaming" SKU so no problem ...
But why gimp the media-capable device? What's the launch-day messaging there? "PS5 - the most powerful console ever. Or play your movies, on a slightly less capable console if you don't mind gaming with judder."Of course they could buy an add-on optical drive with software license, it can be cleverly integrated into the case in the same way as you can easily change HDD on PS4.
And performace difference between the two would be mainly in framerates, when media targeting 30 fps and gaming 60 fps/ VR headsets, so no eye-candy would be lost.
Why not take the PS5 console and make it the best possible, trim the fat to keep the price as low as possible, and then have a media-loaded version of the same console at a higher price with added value?
Personally, I don't believe we'll see the magical $399 entry point from Sony and Microsoft based systems for some time soon... or at least the upcoming new generation anyhow. Sure it's my personal opinion, but I figure if you can afford a $399 system, a $499 system isn't totally out of reach.
Entry Model: $499
CPU: 8c/16t @3GHz
GPU: 11TF
Memory: 16GB GDDR6
Storage: 512GB SSD
Premium Model: $599-649
CPU: 8c/16t @3GHz
GPU: 15TF
Memory: 24GB GDDR6
Storage: 1TB SSD
Entry Model: $499
CPU: 8c/16t @3GHz
GPU: 11TF
Memory: 16GB GDDR6
Storage: 512GB SSD
Premium Model: $599-649
CPU: 8c/16t @3GHz
GPU: 15TF
Memory: 24GB GDDR6
Storage: 1TB SSD
IMO, a premium/pro SKU has to have enough processing boost to make it noticeable for the consumer. I don't think 11 vs 15 TF will translate into that much of a noticeable difference. It needs to be closer a 100% difference in compute power to be a differentiator (PS4 vs PS4 Pro is over 2x and X1 vs X1X is over 4.5x). I guess that's why I don't see them launching two differently spec'ed models at the start of the generation. I think a Pro version will come when the technology nodes will allow the improvement in horsepower.
I agree to a certain extent, however, these systems will still be tied to the entry level models (i.e., PS4/Pro and XBO/X). Meaning; any additional CPU/GPU grunt afforded by the premium models will only serve towards frame-rate improvements, not geometry/shader/lighting complexity beyond the entry level models (games). So, things such as sampling levels (i.e., resolution and anti-aliasing) and frame-rate improvements will be those differences... along with improved texture sizes/quality alloted by the larger memory sizes within the premium models. So, a 11TF game on an entry level system, isn't going to look any better on a 20TF system, other than for frame-rate improvements and IQ sampling levels.
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I think that's the difference between a mid-gen and a 'Pro/Elite'. You can't have twice the power at launch, unless the base unit is horribly under-specced or the Elite is pushing a grand. A Premium launch console could just be a magnesium alloy shell, few more ports, more storage, sort of thing, to count as premium. Think our favourite metaphor - the difference between a 1.2l car and its 1.5l model fancy is a bit more money for a bit more power and a plusher interior, rather than twice the price and twice the speed.
Speccing a high model launch console shouldn't be a priority for this thread. It'll be the base spec plus something, if it exists.
Arcade SKU:
12GB GDDR6
240GB FLASH
300mm² APU
1 x controller
no hdd
no optical
$379 Launch price
Premium/Launch SKU:
12GB GDDR6
240GB FLASH
300mm² APU
2 TB HDD
Optical drive
1 x controller
$449 Launch price
Staggered launch, with Arcade SKU coming two quarters after launch SKU. Both SKUs at or above break even at launch.
Cheers
12GB GDDR6
240GB FLASH
300mm² APU
1 x controller
no hdd
no optical
$379 Launch price
Premium/Launch SKU:
12GB GDDR6
240GB FLASH
300mm² APU
2 TB HDD
Optical drive
1 x controller
$449 Launch price
Staggered launch, with Arcade SKU coming two quarters after launch SKU. Both SKUs at or above break even at launch.
Cheers
Call me a cynic but I doubt the streaming issues will be solved within ten years. I can't be sure to get a clear Netflix/YouTube video without break up, nor game online without disconnects and interruptions. If console gaming requires a certain higher-tier standard of internet, a large portion of console gamers will probably be alienated. No-one as yet has even managed to create a financially viable streaming prototype AFAICS.
It'll happen eventually, but I wouldn't bet on it happening one generation from now. Probably more likely to see a transition like XBox games either on a console or via a streaming service, and when enough people are using the streaming service, stop making console hardware.
It'll happen eventually, but I wouldn't bet on it happening one generation from now. Probably more likely to see a transition like XBox games either on a console or via a streaming service, and when enough people are using the streaming service, stop making console hardware.
Internet connections are more available to customers than consoles are worldwide. Looking st markets like Korea and China where console penetration is slim but connectivity high for instance.
Low lag access might be a different story, there are technologies aiming to improve it, see beam/mixer.
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