Next gen lighting technologies - voxelised, traced, and everything else *spawn*

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by Scott_Arm, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. OCASM

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    Next-gen indie ray traced games will look very good:

     
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  2. DavidGraham

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    More comparison scenes of RTX On and Off in Metro Exodus

     
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  3. keldor

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    Just glancing at that paper it appears that the performance of the algorithm completely collapses for any reasonably large triangle count. Going from 30 FPS on very low poly scenes (only a couple thousand triangles) to less than 1 FPS for medium poly scenes (a few hundred thousand triangles). I realize it was running on old hardware, but modern game scenes can be expected to have a few million triangles... And render more than just shadows...
     
  4. iroboto

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    Since on topic of SLI; can they do SLI for RTX cards doing RT?
     
  5. OCASM

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  6. DavidGraham

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    In summary:

    720p30 on a 1070
    1080p60 on a 2080Ti

    Path Tracing is made a lot easier by the fixed nature of the blocks of minecraft, any dynamic moving object uses SS for the lighting, shadows and reflections.

    There is a ghosting artifact when the scene changes as the tracer uses an accumulation method to render GI (over 4 frames).
     
    #1686 DavidGraham, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  7. OCASM

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  8. Malo

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    Wasn't sure where to post this, interesting though. Using Re-shade with a new screen-spaced path traced global illumination.

    But can it run Crysis... path-traced?

     
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  9. jlippo

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    SSGI methods certainly will become more common in future, hopefully many of them will be backed up by proper scene data like in Metro.

    .. Actually even standard perspective corrected cubemaps and such might be enough to allow SSGI get a lot better handling of environment. (Miss or invalid data from SS and sample cubemap with same ray.)
     
    #1689 jlippo, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  10. Ike Turner

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  11. Ike Turner

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  12. Dictator

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    THere it is:
    "It runs in 1080p with 30 fps on a Vega 56"

    So kind of like I heard - "injecting" geometry at those points when needed at a lower LOD for the ultra mirror like reflections and falling back to voxel cone tracing for less smooth surfaces + diffuse stuff. That explains a heck a lof the visual things going on in the NOIR demo! I love that idea though, tiered quality and different techniques used. Though it does mean that real time dynamic moving objects will not really effect diffuse GI or reflections on less than mirror like reflections. AFAIK character models and moving objects are not voxelised in CryEngine, just the static geo.
    "However, RTX will allow the effects to run at a higher resolution. At the moment on GTX 1080, we usually compute reflections and refractions at half-screen resolution. RTX will probably allow full-screen 4k resolution. It will also help us to have more dynamic elements in the scene, whereas currently, we have some limitations. Broadly speaking, RTX will not allow new features in CRYENGINE, but it will enable better performance and more details."

    Hell yeah! This sounds awesome. It seems like the Noir demo being devoid of many more dynamic elements is one of the things getting that 30 fps on the Vega56 even then!
     
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  13. Ike Turner

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  14. AlBran

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    *lights the @willardjuice, @iroboto @BRiT signal* What was I saying yesterday? xD

    Phil walks on stage.
    “It’s @Rys Tracer! Ryyyyyyyyyyyys Tracer!”

    /flees :runaway:


    ... 3 hours of sleep.
     
    #1694 AlBran, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  15. Shifty Geezer

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    So PVR's solution is significantly more engineered than nVidia's. The idea here is to license the tech for other GPU vendors such as AMD to incorporate? And presumably the ideas are patent protected where they can be, so acceleration concepts (scene hierarchy generator?) that ImageTec are first on will remain exclusive to them?

    Could this actually explain some of nVidia's choices? Are some ideas locked IP?
     
  16. iroboto

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    that is a hard software based implementation by AMD. It's an early graphic, so I'm not sure if that's going to require updating once Navi is released. But we will see.

    oooooof if there is no change
     
    #1696 iroboto, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  17. JoeJ

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    Yeah, that's still the question.
    ImgTec can generate BVH in hardware while running a kind of vertex shader, as i've seen on their earlier docs. NV does this from compute with implementation (AFAIK) hidden behind API.

    But the more interesting claim in the whitepaper is: NV has nothing similar to 'Ray Coherency Engine', which is the most interesting part about RT performance.
    We know NV did most of the research in this field. Just because thy do not talk about it does not mean they don't have it? I doubt this claim.

    If it's true however, we can expect a big perf boost with NV next gen.
    Personally i think the options here are too many patent issues could become a real problem, and likely NV has patents over their RT research. But i'm no lawyer.

    ...oh - i've missed the most important part here actually:
    If ImgTecs BVH generation is so fast and allows per frame rebuild, this would fix the largest DXR/RTX problem: Missing LOD support.
    With the option to generate geometry and BVH on the fly any LOD mechanism can be implemented.
    We still want to reuse data over multiple frames ofc, so while moving through the world stuff coming closer becomes more detailed but only parts of geometry change each frame.
    I like this :) With such issues solved and everything just working the mentioned black boxes are no more problem.
     
  18. PSman1700

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    Can't run it yet but its awesome how many Ray-Traced games are already available. For non-RTX gpu's you can get away with something like a Radeon VII.
     
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  19. jlippo

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    Would be more interesting, if it wasn't a screenspace tracer.
    Inability to use backup methods for SS misses or excisting GI methods is quite big limitation.
     
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  20. MfA

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    There's only so much reordering rays can do ... you trade incoherence in intersection test for incoherence for the memory access for the re-ordering.

    It's curious with how much NVIDIA has published on ray tracing in general recently, how little it has published on ray re-ordering in recent years. All the work of Timo Aila is relatively far in the past. Maybe it's just nowhere near relevant to real time ray tracing on commodity hardware?
     
    #1700 MfA, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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