Next gen lighting technologies - voxelised, traced, and everything else *spawn*
- Thread starter Scott_Arm
- Start date
That's an argument, especially the shadow example you gave. However, the shadow would change continuously at least, and it would not look less low poly than rocks in actual open world games do. Even real life sun shadows are not so hard to expose the tricks in a distracting manner i hope.
The main problem is the effort which goes much beyond what current engines can do. The parametric stuff i propose can only handle geometry of limited complexity. It can make the surface very detailed, but it can not help with something like a tree and its branches at multiple scales.
For this i see only two options to improve over billboards: point splatting or volume rendering. Only the latter is compatible with RT, but the former would be much faster and easy. As long as we are in hybrid era it's very interesting.
Another question: Is it acceptable to exclude diffuse stuff from RT completely? I'm fine with BFV removing some foliage.
But complexity is insane in any case. Think of an example of fine grained vegetation ranking along a tree. Close up: All triangles (+ displaced detail?). Medium distance: Put the vegetation into the texture of the tree trunk. Far: Trunk still triangles, but branches as points. Very far: Points only.
Notice how the ranks change between point an triangle representations forth and back. Alone the preprocessing tools make my head hurt. Difficult to think of a practical compromise and hard to make transitions smooth.
Metro test with comparison screenshots and benchmark:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Metro...hnik-Test-Raytracing-DLSS-DirectX-12-1275286/
Text quite positive. Interesting:
"Raytracing in Metro Exodus affects the sun and sky. Local light sources are not ray traced due to the stealth gameplay mechanics. This allows the player to have a better idea of when and where they can or cannot be spotted. Toggling ray tracing does not change stealth gameplay."
Further they say some objects like foliage are exlcuded from RT, but there is no explantation about the difference from settings.
DLSS does no wonders for IQ but helps with perf.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Metro...hnik-Test-Raytracing-DLSS-DirectX-12-1275286/
Text quite positive. Interesting:
"Raytracing in Metro Exodus affects the sun and sky. Local light sources are not ray traced due to the stealth gameplay mechanics. This allows the player to have a better idea of when and where they can or cannot be spotted. Toggling ray tracing does not change stealth gameplay."
Further they say some objects like foliage are exlcuded from RT, but there is no explantation about the difference from settings.
DLSS does no wonders for IQ but helps with perf.
Very interesting.
And yes, this is quite nutty when I think about it. Game design decisions will matter a lot here for stealth gameplay.
Ike Turner
Veteran
But let's purposely have the light-probes not affect the dynamic meshes (and tweak AO) when RTX is OFF to make it look worst than it should?
RTX On:
RTX OFF:
RTX OFF screenshots look ridiculous https://www.dsogaming.com/first-imp...rformance-impressions-comparison-screenshots/
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According to the article it's DLSS that messes up the brightness.But let's purposely have the light-probes not affect the dynamic meshes (and tweak AO) when RTX is OFF to make it look worst than it should?
RTX On:
RTX OFF:
RTX OFF screenshots look ridiculous https://www.dsogaming.com/first-imp...rformance-impressions-comparison-screenshots/
With homogenous materials it shouldn't be that bad, basically ior math each time ray hits something and tint results according distance within material.)
Should be decently simple to mark polygons which would have some other material or object next to it. (Air, glass, whiskey.)
Nice shot. There was confusion at PCGH why RTX still makes a difference in scenes although there is no sky.
I guess it's just the AO we see in this shot, which adds good depth and finally resolves missing occlusion for reflection probes?
Looks very good to me.
Edit: Indirect lighting could be still on as well, even if there is no direct lighting considered? I have not really a clue what they do.
DSOG also has DLSS comparison, and as expected i like the blurry image much more. I hate this artificial sharpness of computer graphics. Always wished for a blur option in drivers, but now magic AI finally delivers this, haha
Working as graphics artist i noticed: Blur makes darker, sharpening makes brighter. Affects high frequency stuff only. Never cared for the reason, but could be surely fixed if people keep complaining.
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Ike Turner
Veteran
So there's no RT indoors...The lighting with RTX OFF doesn't make any sense whatsoever.. What is actual light source anyway?
RTX OFF
RTX On:
RTX Off + 2 secs tweak in Win10 Photos app
RTX OFF
RTX On:
RTX Off + 2 secs tweak in Win10 Photos app
RTX AO is on all the time and does not need a light source. (AO only subtracts light, while GI only adds it.)
So it could be traditional lighting with point lights and probes, and RTX only drakens it by occlusion.
Interesting: The small objets on the table cause no occlusion, but they are darker too. I do not understand this yet.
Ike Turner
Veteran
They are not doing Ray Traced AO AFAIK.
They do. It has been shown in the videos about RTX development as well.
I wondered about it, because if you have GI you usually don't want to use AO which is always a fake. Now i understand better a bit.
They did a while back when Digital Foundry had talk with them.
Has something changed?
Ike Turner
Veteran
Is there any direct quote from the developers about that (besides a DF dude saying what he thinks he's seeing in a video...?). Don't have much time to look it up.
Ike Turner
Veteran
Thanks..so they are using SSAO when RTX is OFF..which still doesn't explain what the hell is going on with the end result.
Can you rephrase your confudion? I can't follow but could lift my own...
DavidGraham
Veteran
Metro run fine at 1080p60 with High RTX on a 2060, same for a 2080 at 1440p60 and that's without DLSS
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Performance_Analysis/Metro_Exodus/6.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Performance_Analysis/Metro_Exodus/6.html
Ike Turner
Veteran
Techpowerup doesn't mention if DLSS was enabled ot not in their DXR benchmarks and clearly it was ON in some cases because their results don't align at all with https://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/metro-exodus-test-gpu-cpu (they have tested all resolution with DLSS on & off when applicable)
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