Next-gen graphical pet peeves

How do you deal with the memory hit? To get good looking shadows with shadow maps needs lots of memory, especially if you need all players on screen to have reasonably good looking shadows as well as realtime shadows cast by all stadium geometry. With shadow volumes the memory hit is tiny.
Go deferred with your shadows (it's going to be a big win in a game with lots of characters on screen..) and re-use the memory for the shadow maps also for your main render target (though it's less relevant on 360).
Stencil shadows are dead..for so many different reasons that it would be better to open a new thread just to discuss that.
I think bandwidth can become relevant, it just depends on how many items are casting/receiving shadows.
What technique are you referring to here?
In our case aside from game characters, we need realtime shadows for all stadium geometry since the sun moves during play. It's only a stencil pass but still, it can occupy large swaths of the entire screen depending on the time of day.
With shadow maps you could use some super simplified geometry for the stadium and draw it once per shadow map with minimal overdraw -> big win.
In comparison shadow mapping techniques so far seem hit or miss, although I do hear that Uncharted has pretty good shadows.
Amazing shadows..
 
joker said:
With shadow volumes the memory hit is tiny.
As far as I can recall, except for PS2, all other architectures force a memory hit on shadow volumes (whether for temporary buffers that store traced silhouttes, or for balooned up pre-made volume buffers that GPU can process).
The overhead will vary with lots of things, but if you have a lot of geometry, both of these will be significant IMO.

You can add a softness to shadow volumes as well. Accurate? Maybe not, but it can look reasonably good.
Screen space filtering looked alright on SDTVs, but it tends to be wonky on HD. The other techniques I've seen or read about were all absurdly expensive.

nAo said:
Stencil shadows are dead..
Actually there's one situation where I have been recently thinking stencil could still be a win, but it's pretty game specific, and it requires mixing of both approaches. Maybe we should really open a new thread for that though.
 
What technique are you referring to here?

Both actually. I guess my point was that bandwidth on either shadow technique is low if its just used for the characters. But, add in world geometry and it becomes measurable.

nAo said:
With shadow maps you could use some super simplified geometry for the stadium and draw it once per shadow map with minimal overdraw -> big win.

We kind of do that now with shadow volumes. Our stadium shadow volumes for example are tiny, < 300 verticies for an entire stadium which at 16 bit precision means we need < 2k to get realtime stadium shadows. With < 300 verts, extrusion is also cheap.

Fafalada said:
Actually there's one situation where I have been recently thinking stencil could still be a win, but it's pretty game specific, and it requires mixing of both approaches.

We actually do use both. For stadiums, shadow volumes seemed to make sense for a bunch of reasons. The memory footprint is tiny, performance is very fast. Plus, all the stadium structure is far from where the shadows ultimately get cast (on ground and players), so we can do a uniform blur on the shadow and it will look correct since the shadow casting structure is effectively at infinity.

In cases where shadow casting geometry is in contact with shadow receiving geometry, there would be issues since you'd expect a sharp shadow where they meet, and generally getting fuzzier as they got further apart. But that situation doesn't arise with stadium geometry so a uniform blur looks ok. Plus, the simplicity of shadow volumes made them very desirable for a sports game that must be released every year like clockwork or face massive fines!

Anyways, that was our line of thinking.
 
Pet peeves for me:

Over use of HDR. Honestly, I could care less for it if it means alot more graphical quality in other regards (I'm talking to you Bungie!)

Low locked framerates. Kudos to Infinity Ward for committing to 60 FPS!

Let's see the other pet peeve I have actually isn't because of the games but press. To much over hype. Seriously, by the time I finally got Bioshock in my hands and played it on my PC, I could care less about the damn game at that point. The hype coaster kills my desire.
 
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