Next gen features *spawn

With Live you can chat to anyone playing any game (or doing something else) while you're doing anything. You can invite someone doing anything to join you in a game. You can party up and stay in that party as you do ... whatever. You can set beacons so that all your friends can see what you what to do in advance, whatever they're doing.

Good stuff, and I expect it all to make its way into the PS4.
 
I really can't see why it should be any different if they'd replace points with $/€/£ on the card.
Because you know the price. It's not much, but it is a reassurance.
MS will still sell them to (r)etailers at fixed cost. Just when people see that a 20€ card is on sale for just 10€ they might see it as a better deal than 4k card at half that's original price.
Except you're unlikely to get a €20 card for €10 because that looks like free money, and retailers don't discount money. At least I don't see it. If you're lucky you get maybe 5% on credit or whatever you might stick on a store card, but basically cash is treated as cash. If MS sell €20 cards for €10, they'll be the first to do it that I know of. PSN cards can be a few quid cheaper than face value.

Another thing no one seems to take into account is that money's value changes and generally there is no nice and round number that you can use in all the currencies. It's far easier for the devs to set a fixed price of N units (points) for their game than to figure out a nice round number for each and every different currency in use for their game price.
MS Points are just another currency. There'll be a local exchange rate for your currency and points, and there'll be a relative valu for regions buying points and what publishers get from those purchases. If the value of the dollar drops and the points bought by dollars aren't worth as much as points bought in yen, then MS would have to adjust the regional price for games to be equivalent, or just take less money from US gamers spending 400 points than Japanese gamers spending 400 points.

A cash system would be no different to PayPal, with regional pricing described in regional currency. Neither points nor cash is an obvious better choice (except for those who can get points cards at crazy discounts!), but it's easier to read cash. When Eurogamer list game prices as 400 points, I have no idea what that'd actually cost, whereas £3.99 means something to me, which is reassuring.
 
Persistantthug said:
Such as what? (besides Cross Game chat, because I know that's an obvious answer)

What I mean is, PS3/PSN has Direct TV, Netflix, got YouTube and Hulu first, has twitter, has facebook, NHL, MLB, VUDU, Lovefilm, VIDZONE, BBC, MUBI...a web browser to traverse the internet, HOME, and a ton of other stuff as well.

So what is it that you feel PSN/PSN is lacking that XBOX 360/XBOX LIVE has?

Beats me, I only have a PS3. But I've learned through the Internets that the PSN experience is a shoddy, pathetic shadow of what Live gives you, and I'd like not to feel network service inadequate next gen.

Also, cross-game point-to-point and group voice chat.

Also, lots better social features (which of my PSN friends have played this game I just bought? No reasonable way to tell through the XMB), including group invitations and quorum fora. I'd like to be able to form a posse of my friends and be able to arrange to move from game to game. I'd like to have the equivalent of twitter feeds from my friends, attached to each game, so that we could all be discussing the games we're interested in, in context. I'd like such a rich baseline of social features to be available in games in a consistent manner.

I'd like to be able to promote the sub-account I set up for my wife to a full PSN account without her having to lose trophies.

I'd like to be able to gift PSN friends items from games, or indeed games themselves if I'm feeling generous.

As I say, I don't know how much of that Live has, but my understanding is that it's substantial.
 
Because you know the price. It's not much, but it is a reassurance.
True but my point has been that it's not really all that nice to see the price in local currency when for example on Steam the games generally have the same price number in $ and € meaning Europeans pay significantly more for exact same thing.

Also, I'd dare to say it's in MS interests to not make people think in terms of actual money as that might discourage them from buying stuff. Good for business, not that good for consumers, I know :)
If the value of the dollar drops and the points bought by dollars aren't worth as much as points bought in yen, then MS would have to adjust the regional price for games to be equivalent, or just take less money from US gamers spending 400 points than Japanese gamers spending 400 points.
Has this ever happened during the life of XB360?
When Eurogamer list game prices as 400 points, I have no idea what that'd actually cost, whereas £3.99 means something to me, which is reassuring.
My country was using Estonian Kroons just a year ago and seeing prices in $/€ told me even less than point values. Not to mention in order to be actually able to buy anything for those points we need to lie to MS and tell them we live in some place else but that's a whole different story :)


Basically my point is that moving from points to actual local currency won't really give much of a benefit but will cause a whole lot of extra work and/or pretty ugly price numbers in most areas.
 
I'd like to be able to promote the sub-account I set up for my wife to a full PSN account without her having to lose trophies.
There are "full" and "sub" accounts on PS3 for trophies? I just create accounts. They seem pretty equal to me. What makes them different? If different, why not create a "full" account for her day one? It's not like it costs anything more for additional accounts.

I'd like to be able to gift PSN friends items from games, or indeed games themselves if I'm feeling generous.
You can't gift items, but you can gift games already.
 
Because you know the price. It's not much, but it is a reassurance.
Except you're unlikely to get a €20 card for €10 because that looks like free money, and retailers don't discount money. At least I don't see it. If you're lucky you get maybe 5% on credit or whatever you might stick on a store card, but basically cash is treated as cash. If MS sell €20 cards for €10, they'll be the first to do it that I know of. PSN cards can be a few quid cheaper than face value.

MS Points are just another currency. There'll be a local exchange rate for your currency and points, and there'll be a relative valu for regions buying points and what publishers get from those purchases. If the value of the dollar drops and the points bought by dollars aren't worth as much as points bought in yen, then MS would have to adjust the regional price for games to be equivalent, or just take less money from US gamers spending 400 points than Japanese gamers spending 400 points.

A cash system would be no different to PayPal, with regional pricing described in regional currency. Neither points nor cash is an obvious better choice (except for those who can get points cards at crazy discounts!), but it's easier to read cash. When Eurogamer list game prices as 400 points, I have no idea what that'd actually cost, whereas £3.99 means something to me, which is reassuring.

Well the nice thing with points is that in theory no matter where you go in the world everything on Xbox Live will cost the same amount of points. The only thing that changes is how much you pay for those points at the register.

So again, in theory, MS never has to adjust the price of games on Xbox Live due to fluctuating currency. They could in theory just adjust the price of the point cards in various countries if the currency variation is greater than that expected over time.

So with points, MS, in theory will always make the exact same amount of money no matter where in the world the game is sold.

In practice, however, I doubt it's really like this. I'm sure people in countries using non-US currency wouldn't like the price of their Xbox Points cards fluctuation up and down from year to year depending on how their currency is doing relative to the dollar.

So that may be another reason MS is dropping it. In theory points cards are great. It is immune to currency fluctuation (assuming MS always sells the cards at X US dollars to retailers in foreign countries) and it allows for a unified buying experience anywhere in the world.

But since consumers as I mentioned just prior would likely not take too kindly to the price of their cards fluctuating from year to year or even from month to month, that would make that first benefit moot.

And the second benefit I mentioned may not outweigh the convenience to a local buyer of being able to see directly how much a title will cost in their local currency.

Hence, it may be one of those things that sound better in theory than actually works out in practice.

The other thing is that the games themselves wouldn't be taxed (as they are "purchased" with a non-currency currency), and instead the points cards would be taxed. That could change the level of taxes charged. I don't know a LOT about tax laws, much less tax laws in foreign countries but it's entirely possible that "Gift Cards" are taxed differently than "Games." If real currency is used on Xbox Live (credit card, paypal, gift card...) then it must be taxed (at least in the US). If the Gift Card is also taxed, that double the tax paid with a cash value card. If Gift Cards aren't taxed, then you theoretically avoid taxes all together with a points card.

Regards,
SB
 
There are "full" and "sub" accounts on PS3 for trophies? I just create accounts. They seem pretty equal to me. What makes them different? If different, why not create a "full" account for her day one? It's not like it costs anything more for additional accounts.

The sub account doesn't need its own credit card attached, and it can have parental controls put on it, I think were the differences.

At certain points during Home's beta, they didn't let sub accounts log in, was the particular pain point.

We would have created a "full" account for her on day one, but we didn't appreciate the importance of doing so, and there was no way to convert the account after it was created.

Her friends list, trophies, etc., all got irrevocably locked to the sub account.

People spent quite a bit of effort complaining to Sony on the US PS Blog's 'suggestions' board, but nothing has ever been done about it. Sony doesn't seem terribly customer service oriented with stuff like that.

You can't gift items, but you can gift games already.

Ah, good to know. As it happens, I'm not actually all that generous, so it hasn't come up yet. :p
 
True but my point has been that it's not really all that nice to see the price in local currency when for example on Steam the games generally have the same price number in $ and € meaning Europeans pay significantly more for exact same thing...

Well the nice thing with points is that in theory no matter where you go in the world everything on Xbox Live will cost the same amount of points....The other thing is that the games themselves wouldn't be taxed (as they are "purchased" with a non-currency currency), and instead the points cards would be taxed...
Maybe you're right, but if that's the case, why is every system out there using money? I mean, you don't buy iTunes points, or Google points, or Amazon points. If MS want to offer a similar service selling movies and music along with games, they'd be unique if they don't use cash.
 
Someone has to convert the points between multiple currencies if people shop across boundary. Keeping the conversion rate worldwide sounds complicated. They can let the banks handle it using real currencies. Consumers also don't have to wait for MS to adjust their rate.
 
People aren't supposed to be shopping across boundaries anyway. That leads to copyright violations. Games may get away with it, but the media industries won't be in favour, I'm sure. Otherwise why not just simplify the whole thing with one single market that lists prices in your prefered currency?
 
My bad, I was thinking about PSN when I said that. You can buy from Japan store and play because it's not region locked.

However even for local shopping... if you google, you'll find Canadians complaining about expensive MS points when their dollars became stronger comparatively in 2007. MS adjusted their point $$$ as a result but it may not happen fast enough.

EDIT: I think Brad's explanation sounds good too. After they merge in Games On Demand products, a mix of points and dollar prices in XBL is probably confusing.
 
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