News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[pjbliverpool]

But it was the same back in 2005

Do you think an amd x2 4800 was slower than the waternoose cpu in the xbox 360 ? do you also think that the xbox 360's gpu was faster than the x1x00 series ?

consoles are allways behind the pc.

But not by anywhere near as much as this coming generation. The X2 4800 may have had considerably higher single threaded performance and a little higher multithreaded performance but it also had far lower SIMD performance than Xenon.

And regarding the GPU, it actually had quite a lot more shader power than the X1800XTX which was the fastest AMD card at the time of it's launch. It fell quite a bit behind in everything else but on balance the difference is light years away from how the Durango GPU is going to compare with the likes of the HD 8790 and 780 GTX.

 

[bkilian]

$150 dollar Kinect when the Bom for the camera was an estimate $56 dollars...

You keep repeating this number. Do you often pull numbers out of you butt like this? I know for a fact the BOM for Kinect wasn't anywhere near $56. If your source is iSupply, that doesn't help much, since they're useless at estimating costs of custom devices.

The burden of proof is on you, the person making the claim, and not on other people to disprove your claim. I can't prove the world isn't going to end tomorrow. That doesn't mean it is.

 

[Bagel seed]

This should be the source of that $56, UBM Techinsights.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210649/Kinect-s-BOM-roughly--56--teardown-finds-

 

[bkilian]

This should be the source of that $56, UBM Techinsights.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210649/Kinect-s-BOM-roughly--56--teardown-finds-

Yeah, about as accurate as iSuppli is, ie, not at all. Doesn't include per unit patent and licensing costs, vastly underestimates some items, and doesn't seem to count things like the tilt motor assembly.

 

[(((interference)))]

You're talking about pricing versus competitors. I'm talking about how a company sets its product price and how that isn't tied to BOM. If Apple assemble some specs, even if high end, they can then charge a premium. So can Samsung. If some cheap Ukrainian startup wants to release exactly the same spec phone, they'll have to charge a lot less to have any market appeal. Price of goods != BOM * x%. Price of goods == as much as you can charge and still have people buy at the rate you want to sell.

No, i'm saying that the big players in smartphone market use demand based pricing rather than cost plus pricing - because it is an aspirational market, like say designer clothing.

The console market, has historically been different as the cost is very closely tied to the BOM (cost plus pricing) - since platform holders have made their profit out of selling games, accessories and services (XBL) rather than consoles.

If MS shifts to demand based pricing next gen they're taking a risk that their Xbox brand is as valuable as Apple or Samsung.

 

[(((interference)))]

Looks like it will fit in well with their 4 main products...

Bing definitely needs new branding. I think the boomerang is appropriate. Will be interesting to see how they improve on the Xbox logo.

Tommy McClain

That Xbox logo is already the new one they introduced last year.
It doesn't need any more improving, looks great as it is - and it's 'flat' like all their redesigned logos - no pseudo 3D shading etc.

 

[Averagejoe]

You keep repeating this number. Do you often pull numbers out of you butt like this? I know for a fact the BOM for Kinect wasn't anywhere near $56. If your source is iSupply, that doesn't help much, since they're useless at estimating costs of custom devices.

The burden of proof is on you, the person making the claim, and not on other people to disprove your claim. I can't prove the world isn't going to end tomorrow. That doesn't mean it is.

Since you decide to be so rude i ask you..

What is the excuse for the $99 dollar WIFI adapter.?

What is the excuse for xbox live $60 a year.?

What is the one on HDD.?

In this very moment the 320GB HDD on the xbox site is $130 dollars,how can you justify that.? a laptop drive of that size cost like $50 for PC.

The $99 network adapter was an even bigger joke,now tell me that it cost MS way more to get and HDD than what it cost me on newegg..

I could actually bough a wifi adapter for $17 or $20 dollars for PC on 2005.

Is funny you say Issuply is off,but they were very spot on,on the PS3 price it cost a ton to sony and sony lose a ton.

Since i pull things out of my butt...

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/accessories/xbox-360-320gb-media-hard-drive/97831

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152288

Maybe you can explain to me this,and why the hugely gross over price on those drives,specially when MS sell units without them..

Everything happen for a reason,i know you know that..

 

[Averagejoe]

No, i'm saying that the big players in smartphone market use demand based pricing rather than cost plus pricing - because it is an aspirational market, like say designer clothing.

The console market, has historically been different as the cost is very closely tied to the BOM (cost plus pricing) - since platform holders have made their profit out of selling games, accessories and services (XBL) rather than consoles.

If MS shifts to demand based pricing next gen they're taking a risk that their Xbox brand is as valuable as Apple or Samsung.

Which is not Cell phones are complete different market to consoles,MS will soon learn that,a phone is a necessity more than is an enjoyment and entertainment device,smart phones are so popular because they provide both in one,something the xbox 720 doesn't have is no a cell phone or portable.

But if this is true they are basically using the same strategy phone companies do,which is over price the unit to hell,so that people are force to get a contract.

The Iphone 5 16GB is not worth $650 dollars like at&t claims,not even the ipad is that expensive on the 16GB version.

Is remind me of the stores that put a 25% discount on everything,but when you go the items are grossly over priced,so if you buy there you end paying the same you would on other stores or some times even more.

 

[MrFloopy]

Which is not Cell phones are complete different market to consoles,MS will soon learn that,a phone is a necessity more than is an enjoyment and entertainment device,smart phones are so popular because they provide both in one,something the xbox 720 doesn't have is no a cell phone or portable.

But if this is true they are basically using the same strategy phone companies do,which is over price the unit to hell,so that people are force to get a contract.

The Iphone 5 16GB is not worth $650 dollars like at&t claims,not even the ipad is that expensive on the 16GB version.

Is remind me of the stores that put a 25% discount on everything,but when you go the items are grossly over priced,so if you buy there you end paying the same you would on other stores or some times even more.

You keep using the words worth and price. Price tends towards a level where there is equilibrium between supply and demand. Worth is highly subjective and a personal judgement on an items particular value (including non monetary) to an individual.

Cost only affects price if the equilibrium price is below a threshold (in very simplistic terms cost plus an acceptable margin, which can be negative).

Even if your cost estimates are correct (we wouldn't know), there is no magical connection between the cost and price.

 

[eastmen]

Since you decide to be so rude i ask you..

What is the excuse for the $99 dollar WIFI adapter.?

cause they are a company that wants to make money ?

What is the excuse for xbox live $60 a year.?

cause it was and still is the best console online system out... oh and they are a company that wants to make money

What is the one on HDD.?

again a company that wants to make money ?






Sony couldn't sell their online service per month because it was and still is a joke. But it hasn't stoped them for trying with their psn + service.

The point of a company is to profit .

A ipad doesn't cost $500 and 32 gigs of flash ram doesn't add a $100 worth of cost to an ipad. Adding a lte modem doesn't add the same amount of money either. But apple wants to make money and thus will charge the higher prices for it.


That's the way it works in this world. I don't see the problem with Durango costing MS $300 in bom costs but you still have to pay for R&D and employees need money.

I don't see a problem with either system retailing for $500 . now the problem for either of these companies come in when one is priced to high vs the other. That happened with the ps3. Lack of games , poor online and being a year late all while costing $100-$300 more than the xbox 360 was not good for them.

Durango could have problems if its $500 and the ps4 is $400 then again if the ps4 is $500 also I don't see the problem.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

I don't see a problem with $500 being the asking price. going millions over budget is the only thing i would be concerned about. besides that, May 21 is the date and i can see plenty of reason why the answers to many of questions aren't being confirmed or otherwise; the event was within months apart from the start of these new rumors.

And like what Mark Cerny of Sony's 2013 event said; the conference wouldn't be worth all the attention if they answered everyone's questions months prior to the event. did it effect them for not saying anything for a few months? the answer is no. So it's evident why MS is doing the same; they want a lot of publicity to follow.

 

[bkilian]

Since you decide to be so rude i ask you..

What is the excuse for the $99 dollar WIFI adapter.?

What is the excuse for xbox live $60 a year.?

What is the one on HDD.?

In this very moment the 320GB HDD on the xbox site is $130 dollars,how can you justify that.? a laptop drive of that size cost like $50 for PC.

The $99 network adapter was an even bigger joke,now tell me that it cost MS way more to get and HDD than what it cost me on neweg...

Why does apple charge $300 for 16GB of ram, when I can buy the same amount from Crucial for $130? Why does a DVD cost ~$20 when the BOM is less than a dollar? Why do used video games cost $50 when gamestop only paid you $15 for it?

It's simple:
a) There's more to a product than it's BOM
b) That's what people are willing to pay.

More than 30 million people appear to consider $60 a year for live worthwhile. If it was half that price, would it double the number of people willing to pay for it? Probably not (especially since that would equal pretty much all the Live users in total)
Millions and millions of people daily are willing to pay $5 for a 20c cup of coffee at Starbucks. Does the fact that Dunkin Donuts offers coffee for $1 make all their customers suddenly jump over? No. People don't work that way.

If you want to understand why people behave the way they do, and why companies price things they way they do, you should look into some behavioral economics. I'm partial to Dan Ariely. You can find his talks on TED.com, and his books are available everywhere.

 

[Tap In]

Exactly

the world economy is based on what people will pay for something and its perceived value. Not what we think should be fair for them to mark up.

Welcome to the world.

 

[AzBat]

That Xbox logo is already the new one they introduced last year.
It doesn't need any more improving, looks great as it is - and it's 'flat' like all their redesigned logos - no pseudo 3D shading etc.

You & I might like the current look, but you know as well as I do, they are going to update it again. Seems appropriate to do it with a brand new generation. Don't see how they can make it worse.

Tommy McClain

 

[(((interference)))]

I think they'll keep the logo itself (it's not even been officially used in an Xbox product yet, Xbox Music/Video doesnt count) but change the 'Xbox' logotype to use the Segoe font

 

[Cjail]

Which means it doesn't matter. Not to MS. People can whinge all they like on the intarwebz - it's not going to make any difference to MS's performance once they announce the product and start selling it on its merits as communicated by MS. So why bother giving in to the demands of a bunch of internet whiners who feel MS have to provide them with something just because they're curious?

I expected you to say this but it is important not to underestimate negativity because it could still translate into losses in the future.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Since you decide to be so rude i ask you..

He's not being rude. You're being obtuse and failing to engage correctly in the discussion. You made an assertion and as such, it's your responsibility to support that assertion when challenged. If you can't answer the original question, just admit it! When Gradthawn asks, "do you have a costing for Durango?" your response should be, "no, but I'm looking at MS's pricing history using such-and-such BOMs and seeing a pattern of pricing well beyond BOM." Or whatever. But all your doing at the moment is repeating yourself, ignoring the discussion, and generating a lot of hot air. It's a straight forward yes-or-no question you've been asked. Either provide the links that support your costing for Durango, or accept you don't have any.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I expected you to say this but it is important not to underestimate negativity because it could still translate into losses in the future.

Those losses are the only thing to worry about. And if you can't quantify them, or even present a case where they'll actually materialise, then it remains irrelevant. If the product launching in November this year is exactly what people want, what will negativity now matter? People will still buy Durango. If the product launching in November this year is not what people want (always online whatever), what will the negativity now matter? People still won't want it because it's the wrong product. The only way talk now is a concern is if people making buying decisions when the product is launched are basing their choices on rumours from months earlier. Do you think that'll happen? If not, then what does it matter how much rumouring there is?

 

[Cjail]

^^^

The negativity already materialized, it's allover the internet.
Whether it will translate into financial losses is yet to be seen but the negativity it's there nonetheless.

I saw the negativity surrounding the WiiU months before its resale and even though I could not quantify it in "financial losses" as you say that negativity translated directly into poor sales and losses after the release.

I am not making forecasts here, I am just saying that one should not ignore negativity nor allow negative rumors and speculation spread.
Negativity is not always quantifiable nor it's "material" but it can still hurt you very materially.

 

[AzBat]

I think they'll keep the logo itself (it's not even been officially used in an Xbox product yet, Xbox Music/Video doesnt count) but change the 'Xbox' logotype to use the Segoe font

I don't think they will. It doesn't match their slanted motif used on Windows, Office & Phone. I think it could look something like this...

They will spell the name out though & probably the Segoe font, but so far that looks more like to fit with their branding image.

Tommy McClain