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We need to stop talking purely about prices and start talking about value, because that's the only way we can understand why people will pay $500+ for a tablet every 2-3 years but gawk at spending $399-499 once every 5-6 years for a console. This is why a pure focus in gaming is a negative, not a positive. We know people have this kind of money to spend, they do NOT want to spend it on a gaming box. But a "PC in the living room", perhaps? Who knows. That's why Microsoft is pushing the media stuff so freaking hard. Want to watch Game of Thrones on HBO Go in your TV? Best way is with a 360. Or all of the high quality entertainment apps you can't get anywhere else. That's how you get the soccer moms to buy into it which the Wii tapped into so well.
In my layperson's view, that would just do them (a lot) more harm than good; first it would majorly tick off those people who paid premium price if there's a rapid price drop, and that would not be a good thing to do, seeing as those people would be your core followers. Second, it would make your product look unattractive or even failing, needing a rapid price cut. Wuu's reputation took it right on the chin when some chains voluntarily dropped price just a few months after launch - although the wuu is probably a much better example of an actually failing product than a durango with a fast price cut would be.
I keep hearing this assertion but one thing I don't routinely run across on forums is "I bought a product and now a month later its cheaper and I'm fuming" thread.
When most products I purchase suddenly drop prices after purchase I go "I wish I waited" and not "I wish I didn't buy this product at all".
How many disaffected 3DS fans are out there because Nintendo dropped the its price?
@Silent_Buddha
Ok but while is logical to have titles with some kid of online component/features to require always connected/online it's not that logical or easy to explain always connected/online applied to games with no online component/features whatsoever.
Also the games that will not adopt always online/connected will be seen as a better choice by some players/customers while games that will go the opposite way would no doubt be see more negatively.
There are risks either way but if always online was mandatory then there would be less discrimination.
I admit though that leaving the choice to publishers on always connected/online would be a very intelligent idea because it's far better than that forcing it.
After the initial distrust and disinterest we could see games/developers/publishers to use always online/connected creatively and efficiently and this could really create the necessary condition for always online/connected to be accepted and even cherished by players.
Ok but while is logical to have titles with some kid of online component/features to require always connected/online it's not that logical or easy to explain always connected/online applied to games with no online component/features whatsoever.
Also the games that will not adopt always online/connected will be seen as a better choice by some players/customers while games that will go the opposite way would no doubt be see more negatively.
There are risks either way but if always online was mandatory then there would be less discrimination.
I admit though that leaving the choice to publishers on always connected/online would be a very intelligent idea because it's far better than that forcing it.
After the initial distrust and disinterest we could see games/developers/publishers to use always online/connected creatively and efficiently and this could really create the necessary condition for always online/connected to be accepted and even cherished by players.
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People seem to forget that publishers can do whatever the hell they want to as long as they pass certification. The whole online pass thing did not need to be blessed by Sony or Microsoft to work (though Sony did end up using it themselves). If a game doesn't sell well because of having a bad reputation, that doesn't affect MS or Sony that much.
People may be buying tablets instead of PCs. Not their only PCs but their second or third PCs.
Will they buy a stationary tablet for the living room? Remains to be seen. There are set tops of all kinds and looks like the most they command is about $100. Maybe people will pay to wave at and speak to your PC, maybe they won't.
You do have a point there and maybe my reaction is a bit too knee-jerk. You are correct that the dev/pub will likely have the same requirements across platforms in requiring an internet connection to be able to play the game. The only thing I can really say in regards to this is if these games do not allow single player content to be played while "offline" then these games will likely not be purchased by me.
If it's an online centric game either with limited single player content (not as the actual meat of the game) or an MMO then that is of course a different story and I'd be more willing to purchase said game.
Averagejoe
Regular
Thats not true PC has HBO GO to,and i have mine connected to my 42inch TV,and unlike on 360 HBO GO is not hide behind a pay wall on PC like it is on xbox 360,if you don't have live gold you can't use HBO GO,which is sad because even smart phones had it without a pay wall.
The same happen with netflix,hulu and pretty much any app that is free on PC,PS3,tables and phone but on 360 oyu have to mandatory pay for live gold to access them that is sad.
They've already bought your product, so their opinion doesn't matter.
Like iPad buyers who get a new iPad only to find if they had waited a couple of months, they'd have got a better one. 1) Not if handled right, but if the product launches successfully, you can certainly communicate that you're doing the world a favour by dropping the price of this fabulous product to enable everyone to jump in. 2) I don't think it makes a difference to consumers on the whole. There'll be a brand awareness on something as significant as Xbox (50% of the next-gen console market branding) that won't be tied to sales figures. Look for example at Xbox's launch in Europe. MS overcharged, people didn't buy, MS dropped the price and sales took off. Likewise 3DS. No-one refused to buy a 3DS because it needed a price drop and so was 'failing' - at the new price point a product offers a new value proposition.
I agree with some of the ideas being talked about here too. The idea of a mobile phone parallel and prestige pricing to give a sense of value when entering into costly contracts (wow, a £500 iPhone for only £200, plus a £35 a month contract for 2 years instead of £10 pm for service and buy the phone outright) makes sense, but I imagine that being a US only thing. I wouldn't be surprised if elsewhere there was only the console without contract.
Thats not true PC has HBO GO to,and i have mine connected to my 42inch TV,and unlike on 360 HBO GO is not hide behind a pay wall on PC like it is on xbox 360,if you don't have live gold you can't use HBO GO,which is sad because even smart phones had it without a pay wall.
The same happen with netflix,hulu and pretty much any app that is free on PC,PS3,tables and phone but on 360 oyu have to mandatory pay for live gold to access them that is sad.
You want normal people who hook up a PC to their TV? Have you learned nothing from the debacle that was Windows Media Center (hint, few people ever used it on purpose).
That's not to say it wasn't a good product. But sticking something as complex as a PC in your living room is the very definition of niche (I've done it, I can't recommend the average person bother trying). I didn't say a 360 is the only way to watch HBO Go on a TV, just the best way. Also, I don't believe the website gives you access to HD quality streams.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
a $500 (and $300 with a 2 year subscription) xbox console huh. I spoke to a couple other people in regards to kinect being the cause of the inflation. the responses was different than i expected. they said kinect will most likely be part of the XBOX TV along with some other features since a TV's range can grab more than 30 people. unlike how a console where it's small and must to be correctly positioned in order to receive.
anyways, xbox has never really been the cheapest of the group for a new console and they already have a $99 one as it is so good news if it's true.
anyways, xbox has never really been the cheapest of the group for a new console and they already have a $99 one as it is so good news if it's true.
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Averagejoe
Regular
You want normal people who hook up a PC to their TV? Have you learned nothing from the debacle that was Windows Media Center (hint, few people ever used it on purpose).
That's not to say it wasn't a good product. But sticking something as complex as a PC in your living room is the very definition of niche (I've done it, I can't recommend the average person bother trying). I didn't say a 360 is the only way to watch HBO Go on a TV, just the best way. Also, I don't believe the website gives you access to HD quality streams.
That like saying no one knows how to use their PC,now days most HDTV had RBG in or HDMI,so hooking up your PC to and HDTV i quite simple.
And that is one of the few apps on 360 and not on PS3,but i am sure it will soon hit,much like it was the case with netflix.
I am reading the leak again and I realized how much i glossed over the feature set and concentrated mostly on the hardware arch.
Reading it makes me wonder whats actually in the 720 other than Durango APU.
Yukon was a dual apu setup (depending how you interpret the diagram) with 32MB of eDRAM, 4GB of DDR4, mass FLASH storage, HDD and the xbox 360 cpu (Xenos is not listed) for a system cost (COGS = cost of goods) of $225.
Yukon with Kinect V2 was targeted for a $299 price point. Given the current info of an additional 4 gGBs and implementing 32mb SRAM versus eDRAM. If there is no extra apu (its a system based processor and Durango is characterized as allowing playback in a lower state) and no xenon then whats up with the increased retail price?
Did anyone notice that MS had (or still has) plans to actually launch a pay TV service called XTV which isn't described as a CE product (not in an appleTV kind of way) but an embedded TV service platform? The 361 was suppose to get off the service in 2012 using a HDMI pass through, your home network and a HD HomeRun. I guess the HDMI in was an important component to make that possible so no 361 then no XTV in 2012.
XTV was slated to be provided to third parties by embedding the hardware into STBs, phones, slates and TVs, but there is no description of XTV as a standalone product.
I guess if you had a cable subscription that sold XTV enabled STBs, you could simply buy a console and subscribe to XTV and maybe Live in general through your cable provider.
I know I am about to offend people's sensibilities right now but bear with me. Maybe there are two apus in durango. Not in the double your gaming pleasure with double apus sort of way but a second apu that allows Durango to decouple 720 gaming from the other features of Durango. Servicing multiple users simultaneously is an attractive feature. A second apu would isolate Durango's main apu from the needs of other applications, so no competing for resource other than RAM.
Maybe that there is so much reserved RAM for Durango as it houses two OSes. An OS which is a Windows 8 PC based that available for a full blown Durango experience and a second Window 8 RT based OS for a second lightweight ARM based apu.
Reading it makes me wonder whats actually in the 720 other than Durango APU.
Yukon was a dual apu setup (depending how you interpret the diagram) with 32MB of eDRAM, 4GB of DDR4, mass FLASH storage, HDD and the xbox 360 cpu (Xenos is not listed) for a system cost (COGS = cost of goods) of $225.
Yukon with Kinect V2 was targeted for a $299 price point. Given the current info of an additional 4 gGBs and implementing 32mb SRAM versus eDRAM. If there is no extra apu (its a system based processor and Durango is characterized as allowing playback in a lower state) and no xenon then whats up with the increased retail price?
Did anyone notice that MS had (or still has) plans to actually launch a pay TV service called XTV which isn't described as a CE product (not in an appleTV kind of way) but an embedded TV service platform? The 361 was suppose to get off the service in 2012 using a HDMI pass through, your home network and a HD HomeRun. I guess the HDMI in was an important component to make that possible so no 361 then no XTV in 2012.
XTV was slated to be provided to third parties by embedding the hardware into STBs, phones, slates and TVs, but there is no description of XTV as a standalone product.
I guess if you had a cable subscription that sold XTV enabled STBs, you could simply buy a console and subscribe to XTV and maybe Live in general through your cable provider.
I know I am about to offend people's sensibilities right now but bear with me. Maybe there are two apus in durango. Not in the double your gaming pleasure with double apus sort of way but a second apu that allows Durango to decouple 720 gaming from the other features of Durango. Servicing multiple users simultaneously is an attractive feature. A second apu would isolate Durango's main apu from the needs of other applications, so no competing for resource other than RAM.
Maybe that there is so much reserved RAM for Durango as it houses two OSes. An OS which is a Windows 8 PC based that available for a full blown Durango experience and a second Window 8 RT based OS for a second lightweight ARM based apu.
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Averagejoe
Regular
MS is using a simple but very effective strategy that could back fire.
If this news are to be believe.
They are selling you Durango for $299 which is the price it should carry with the leaked specs,but they are also adding live $10 dollars per month and actually call it subsidized.
If you don't want the $299 with $10 a month fee they sell your Durango either way,but over charge you for it,so basically they charge you for live were ever you like it or not,the only difference is on the $500 model you don't get live just and over charge.
I have see people already falling for $299 model,which is kind of odd because with the current hardware specs leaked there is no way MS can justify $500 dollar price tag.
They are blowing the price on the stand alone unit so that the $299 model seem more attractive.
Gradthrawn
Veteran
Please, by all means, share with us your estimated BOM of the leaked specs. And be sure to post sources for your numbers.
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