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If the original schedules were delayed, then we'd be looking past 2014.
Ok, where do you get that information? This is a rumor thread so cough up a link or it didn't happen!
EDIT: And while I would have disagreed with Joker back in 2004/2005 (in fact I did disagree with the position) I do agree about delaying next gen now. If new consoles had launched in 2011/2012 to fulfill the traditional timelines we would have been looking at very modest bumps in hardware that don't fundamentally change the experience. We would be looking at a PS4 focused on Move and an Xbox 3 focused on Kinect (which in terms of refresh rate and resolution was a little early IMO as it is).
The problem is the process technology just has not kept up pace; for a long stretch every process revision was allowing large jumps in frequency, increase in chip size, and reduction in power. While the density continues to improve the free lunch on performance has not. I also don't think some of the bigger bottlenecks, like memory bandwidth and memory hierarchies, has really moved forward. That is why when I look at roadmaps introducing stacked memory, interposers, FINFETS, the continued march of SSDs, HDDs, an DRAM over the next couple years is encourage as it gives hope that within a set budget (lets say $400 out the door launch day for the assembled console) the leap offered will offer a significant technological distinction that justifies the PS4/Xbox 3 lasting 7-10 years. It also gives MS/Sony that much more time to further refine Kinect2/Move2 to offer a better experience. So while I am sick of low resolution textures, lack of texture filtering, no AA in games (which many of the new lighting schemes produces HORRID aliasing that isn't going to go away unless there is some fast / robust MSAA support in next gen hardware) I really don't want next gent so soon we STILL have to deal with these problems.
Ok, where do you get that information? This is a rumor thread so cough up a link or it didn't happen!
Well, things may have changed after E3 2011, so...
Or they could watch the NCAA tournament. Or go jogging. Or go to the bar. Or read a book. Or knit a scarf. The Xbox competes with every single other possible use of your free time, not just other video game platforms.
That's rather improbable though. Gamers clearly enjoy their games and it's unlikely for them to switch to another hobby entirely when gaming remains readily available - otherwise why haven't they already done so and be merrily knitting scarves and reading books?
Maybe so but having a customer go to a bar doesn't put Microsoft in a worse position next time they release a new console, compared to if that same person spent their money on a directly competitive product which would put Microsoft in a worse spot. Likewise if they spend their money on yarn to knit a sweater that doesn't hurt the future of Xbox Live. Contrast this to a customer that abandons the PS3. If that customer goes and buys bread crumbs to feed pigeons then no need for Sony to cry over it, but if that customer is now back on Windows and spending money on games/product there then it's a problem for a whole host of reasons, mainly that of that customer getting sucked into a competing ecosystem and building product equity there, hence making him less likely to defect back.
If the original schedules were delayed, then we'd be looking past 2014.
I'd so love it if that were true because the pc is really starting to hit it's stride now, games on it look awesome. Looks like even the next Max Payne will be customized to be with dx 11, tesselation, etc, support. Years 0 to 2 on pc after a new console launch are usually cool cuz you can play better versions of games. Years 2 to 6 are the shitty years because you're wishing devs would support the pc more but you have to basically tolerate console ports with limited assets and tech. Years 6 and onward though are badass because games are now being customized for pc hardware again. Also great news is that the nvidia 680 will be out soon and will push all prices down. Good times, I love it
I'm willing to bet money that next-gen has started before 2014 is over. We are hearing far too much about devteams working on next-gen projects (most recently the GoW PSP team who openly stated they turned down GoW Vita development offer from Sony in favor of their own in-house next-gen game). A team like that can't do it if next-gen is more than 2 years away. And while I don't exclude the possibility that we won't see next-gen at this E3, I also don't believe a word that the companies responsible say on the subject. But I definitely don't expect them to come out before late 2013.
Which does mean imho that the next few years will likely be a high-point for PC gaming If I had the money I would probably be tempted to jump in, but it will have to wait a while as I just bought a Vita. And happy enough with that anyway
But I definitely don't expect them to come out before late 2013. Which does mean imho that the next few years will likely be a high-point for PC gaming
If I had the money I would probably be tempted to jump in, but it will have to wait a while as I just bought a Vita. And happy enough with that anyway Right, well, when I said "original schedule" that was pre-WiiU. *cough*
MSNerd as reported by Toms:
"IAMA someone who 'leaks' information about Microsoft's future plans. AMAA," user MSNerd writes on Reddit, explaining, "I'm exiting 'the game' in a little over a month. It may be now or never if you have a burning desire to get an answer to something that you really care about or something bothers you. As regards Microsoft and their place in the industry primarily, of course."
"My understanding is that we'll see a Xbox device in late-2013 which does Arcade-style games & all the current & future media apps with Kinect (with near-mode)," MSNerd responded. "It will be an ARM-based platform price-competitive with the Apple TV (if you own a Kinect already)."
"Details about it are very hazy, except that, like the 360, it will do games for core-audiences and the same media apps as the other device, also with Kinect," he said, throwing in the prediction that Kinect will likely receive a camera update for the video camera first and later, around 2015-ish, a generational update "to add a better depth camera, processor and inter-connect."
"IAMA someone who 'leaks' information about Microsoft's future plans. AMAA," user MSNerd writes on Reddit, explaining, "I'm exiting 'the game' in a little over a month. It may be now or never if you have a burning desire to get an answer to something that you really care about or something bothers you. As regards Microsoft and their place in the industry primarily, of course."
"My understanding is that we'll see a Xbox device in late-2013 which does Arcade-style games & all the current & future media apps with Kinect (with near-mode)," MSNerd responded. "It will be an ARM-based platform price-competitive with the Apple TV (if you own a Kinect already)."
"Details about it are very hazy, except that, like the 360, it will do games for core-audiences and the same media apps as the other device, also with Kinect," he said, throwing in the prediction that Kinect will likely receive a camera update for the video camera first and later, around 2015-ish, a generational update "to add a better depth camera, processor and inter-connect."
SedentaryJourney
Regular
The great advantage of the console model is its simplicity. It gives consumers and developers a clear specification to work with. Consumers can easily identify the current console generation and developers optimize for it. The whole thing is actually pretty psychologically rewarding as well. For a modest cost every 5 or 6 years you get a great leap forward.
Moving off the console track onto the PC upgrade track means keeping up with a nebulous specification that developers can conveniently ignore, which to me is a frustrating experience. There's also the fact that even at this late stage developers are still getting impressive returns from ancient consoles. Ironically enough, I think Battlefield 3 was probably an even bigger achievement on consoles than PC. I actually don't mind the prolonged console cycle so much because the latest console stuff still wows me. And while Samaritan level graphics could be a reality today on the highest end PCs, it probably won't ship in a PC game until after the next $499 box hits the market. Might even be a console port.
As for Microsoft, PC gaming just doesn't mean as much to them as their Xbox business. Alan Wake PC fans were dicked around a little. The Gears sequels were never ported. Ditto for Halo. Seems as if MS don't want to see platform migration to the PC about as much as Sony.
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Right, so exactly what I was predicting.
Ah yes, "MS Nerd"
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36272483&postcount=3
Reddit said:
Ike Turner
Veteran
Ah yes, "MS Nerd", I thought GAF had dismissed that claim.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36272483&postcount=3
Yup dude's been making up shit all along for nearly 3 years and people still quote him left and right. He simply has zero sources at all and only writes common sense stuff laced with a sprinkle of fantasy.
Why I should do that?For tesselated walls in Crisys2 or Batman AA, or for 1080p and 60fps(without gamepad) in ME3?Not enough reason for me. What I will find on PC platform?same games builded for consoles with 512Ram in mind, with some DX extensions. I feel more comfortable to play with gamepad on big TV screen ,without windows shortcuts,and wait when Samaritan level graphics will come on my TV
Well he is referring to those that cant wait and prefer to experience a graphical update right now. And there is a significant difference between playing on a powerful PC and a console. Certainly these people arent you and me. We are willing to wait and currently enjoy playing in the living room on a couch, getting achievements/trophies linked to our accounts and having one unique gaming ecosystem where our disk based games and digital purchases belong to the same place.
Personally, a great deal of the games I play/buy are either exclusive to consoles or better suited for consoles, so the gaming scene on the PC doesnt really attract me since the gaming experience I get isnt like for like unless I cared only about multiplatform titles and PC's offered me the better experience always.
Those that would go towards a powerful PC exist. But if they are significantly a lot? That we dont know. And there is also the question what will happen if competition comes before MS with their new hardware?
Wouldnt those people transition to the competitive consoles for their desired graphical update instead of a PC forcing MS to act sooner?
I'm indeed a bit of the same. I've just moved in US so right now I own mostly nothing hi tech. The only piece ofg hi tech gear I own is a Tmobile G2x cellphone, it did a great job at convincing me that I no longer need a plain PC. I've the certainty that a tablet (and proper peripherals KB+M) would fill my needs (basically emails youtube, browsing, vid/music and light Ms Office works).
Moving to a PC now because of games sounds awkward to me at this point for to reasons: one next gen spec are unknown and I wished I could somehow future proof the system so I don't upgrade to fast. Two windows 8 is coming it's a significant cost to add to an already significant investment. So I find a lot of intensive to wait
Depending on your use of a PC, it's indeed the better place to be now. I agree some games looks awesome and I no longer can suffer the games on the 360 (or some genre fighting games looks ok to me for example, racing is kind of OK) aliasing, poor filtering, poor textures, constant flickering, etc.Well I would have agreed a year or two ago, but not anymore. You now have games like Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Batman Arkham City, etc that aren't just console ports, they all look and perform significantly better than their console counterparts because they are customized to pc parts. Part of the reason is that the current console gen has lingered on so long and it's hardware grown so old that the engine makers now have no choice but to start focusing more on pc specific graphics. If they don't they will get left behind the tech curve and someone else will overtake them. There is only so much you can do on 7 year old hardware and if you just linger there you will get left behind and it will cost you business wise bigtime.
So I'd argue that this is an amazing time to get into pc gaming because good advances are being made their now, and all the latest tech (Frostbite, Unreal, Cryengine, etc) are being built with pc/nextgen in mind. In fact personally I want the next console gen to be delayed as much as possible because of this. Once new consoles come out then bam they become the focus and the pc will get stuck in time again until another 6 or 7 years pass and the developers exhaust that console hardware and have to shift focus back to pc to innovate. As a side bonus to all this, pc gaming is dirt cheap. I saved $280 just in 2011 by buying my games on pc instead of console, and got a significantly better experience in the process. I can understand liolio's frustration but to me heck I'm thrill that the next consoles are being delayed a until 2013/14 because gaming on the pc is awesome when the pc actually gets targeted for gaming tech
Anyway Diablo3 may convince me to do the investment, in which case I would go for a mid range set-up that would fit a barebone PC. With 28nm GPU it should do the trick for a few years.
There is something funny (not directed at you joker or SedentaryJourney) a lot of the people here that are OK with +7 years old consoles play in fact a lot of games on PC. They sort of acknowledge that they are overall not the most relevant targets now for manufacturers still all lot of them seems to hope for the nextgen console to be some sort of magic bullet to escape actual technological limitation. I don't bite in the hype set by Epic, Samaritan demo runs on UE3 and they need to pimp UE3 because it shows its age in front crytek and EA engines, so they came with a demo to sell their stuff. That's pretty much it to me ( I don't say that they made no improvement but I believe that Crytech, Ea and others could come with the same kind of demo now, for some reason they don't and let their tech speak for them-selves through... games).
Game development seems (I'm an outsider I don't know for sure) to face many bottleneck now that I can't see being resolved anytime soon. GPU have hit the power wall, CPU too that's for the hardware part. On the software part it's the same, I don't expect things significantly better than Cryisis/BF/CoD?etc. anytime soon. The budgets are already as high as they can. To me AAA won't better because they also hit a wall in production cost, big team managements, etc.
I may be wrong I read something about an upcoming AAAA title from MS, my though if true was they will kill (further) the business ecosystem. How much more studio will be pushed out? At which cost on game diversity? Which cost for games and so which costumer budget will be left for lesser games? etc.
All this seems to me like an (failed) attempt to evade the natural evolution of technologies. The last console were imho a bit too much and asked a lot of efforts to dev/studio/editors there were plenty of bankrupt. On the manufacturers side there were plenty of losses too and so they stuck themselves in a longer cycles to recoup those losses. There was other ways in may opinion, a bit less ambitious consoles to begin with, and refresh sooner. Next gen should be here and evolve along PC market, run FB2 engine, cry engine properly instead of holding them back.
It's linked to economic model, subsiding is like QE, credit expansion, etc, it allows failed model to continue for a while. It prevents the best approaches, innovations to succeed.
Anyway back to my rant on gamers here playing on PC now and wanting next gen to suit their needs (so ouotgunning nowadays PC) my question is "you acknowledge that you no longer a valid target for either MS or Sony (Steam get more money than MS from gaming on PC) and they haven't care to fill your needs for a while now what make you believe that you will turns into a valid target again?"
Even PC gamers have pretty reasonable setups if Steam data are to be believed. People that cares that much for graphic and are willing or can pay the premium for high end graphic are few, why manufacturers should care? Especially for products (console) that don't follow an Apple/std high end like pricing ie you want something real good you'll pay a premium for it?
The signals that people happy with current consoles keep sending is that they wont touch a pc because it's not a big enough graphics jump. Yet todays pc is what a 2012/2013 console would provide. So those who are happily playing on current old consoles and saying pc's aren't a big enough upgrade while demanding a huge tech upgrade on next consoles are basically making the console makers wait and wait some more before they release anything new. Simply put there is no way in heck a 2012 console will beat what you can play on pc today, and even a 2013 console is questionable there. You (not you liolio but they know who they are), the faithfull player of 7 year old console hardware are the one telling the console makers to wait until 2014 to release anything new. As long as you keep shunning the pc as not a big enough jump, and keep playing your old consoels and spending money on them you simply won't see new hardware, So it's funny to read people somehow demanding thsi huge jump compared to a pc in the 2012/2013 timeframe, it's not going to happen unless they manage to compress 250 watts to 100 watts in the next year or two.
Just fyi I've been playing pc from my couch comfortably with a 360 gamepad for many years now. I don't know why the couch argument comes up, but I guess that's one of those old pc stereotypes that will never die, like all pc users must wear a suit like in the old Apple ads
Rest assured I play everything from my couch on a nice tv and sound system. Anyways you can wait as many will do, in fact most probably will because as I've argued before graphics are no longer the main draw in games. But I'd add that if you aren't impressed with Batman or BF3 as it looks today on a good pc, then I suspect a 2012/2013 console will dissapoint you. A 2014 console though would be a different matter, but damn that's a long wait!And with just as much actual insider knowledge as you have. I wouldn't pay this guy too much attention.
He probably stole the idea from me!
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