News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Cyan]

I must seriously interpret things differently than most people.
He never said XB1 was a 400hp Porsche and PS4 was a 700hp Corvette.
We was saying that power alone doesn't tell the whole story, and that no one knows what either Sony or MS has done to their systems to alleviate bottlenecks.

The way you put it, it gives it a different sort of slant.

I could swap places in that comparison and that might sound different but the point was that I think his comparison means that it's about brute force in a straight line vs nimbleness in the meandering parts of the road.

If you handle the 700hp Corvette properly it is going to be always faster in the straight line but if you drive the 400hp Porsche in a winding road it is probably going to shave some seconds off from the Corvette!

That's how I understand it. I imagine it would be a quite close race. -think of the Bugatti Veyron and the Lamborghini Aventador-.

 

[Jay]

I think the difference that you took from what he said compared to me, is that I don't think he was making the direct comparison you think he was.
He believes they have tuned their car, doesn't know exactly what the competition has done, but bhp alone isn't the deciding factor as proven by car analogy.

He said comparing the games he doesn't see the difference that people read into the paper specs. You either agree or disagree, but that's his opinion.

 

[Cyan]

I think the difference that you took from what he said compared to me, is that I don't think he was making the direct comparison you think he was.
He believes they have tuned their car, doesn't know exactly what the competition has done, but bhp alone isn't the deciding factor as proven by car analogy.

He said comparing the games he doesn't see the difference that people read into the paper specs. You either agree or disagree, but that's his opinion.

I might edit that part then, I can be quite confusing if you read it like that, so I will leave it at next gen consoles instead of writing names down.

 

[Jwm]

Well we can talk about the new Xbox NFL commercials that kicked off tonight, and it will be interesting to see if any impact is seen with available pre-orders selling out next week.

 

[zupallinere]

I
He wasn't saying that the PS4 is hard to develop for, he was saying that the public don't know what either company has done to the system, etc.

Well he brought up the Cell himself and for a reason. He might have just stated that he believed that the differences were not going to matter much and left it at that but instead he brought up the specter of the Cell. Both next gen systems offer very similar architectures compared to this gen so bringing up the Cell makes no sense and since it makes no sense I think PR.

In general his posts are just fine and his points are reasonable but I just found that bit and the bit about directx to be

I don't read GAF, tried to the other week, I'm with you Kudos to him for going there.

Yeah any Gaffer that doesn't give the guy props for showing up is doing that forum a disservice.

Spoiler

Enjoy the bolded softball GAF Haters

 

[BRiT]

Yeah any Gaffer that doesn't give the guy props for showing up is doing that forum a disservice.

Since when is it in favor to give props to masochists? Why should I give anyone props for that? Should I reward cutters with props too?

 

[temesgen]

Penello deserves credit for making himself available on GAF, I'm sure his statements are being filtered thru MS's PR but regardless it takes guts to show up and I'm sure that he and the rest of their design team are passionate about some of the decisions they made and would love the opportunity to get their perspective/viewpoint out there.

Further its an opportunity to answer the critics and show some strength. He should talk about the vision for the XB1, how MS has been a leader in this space for sometime by executing on a well crafted business model that has a vision on how to provide entertainment and then he should listen to the feedback and share that internally with their team so they can make adjustments to both message and direction as needed.

 

[-tkf-]

At least it looks to me smaller and lighter, like the newer 360 ones.

It was interesting the 360 bricks got smaller and lighter with each revision. The first was a heavy monster. Some of the later ones are so light they almost feel cheap.

If this console is like 130 watts you'd think they could do away with it.

I really dont mind too much. My entertainment center is a messy bundle of cords is a bigger problem than a power brick!

I found space for the Wii and the 360's , so not a problem, just annoying

 

[BoardBonobo]

This could turn into another 'deal with it' PR blunder of he's not careful.

And how is citing directx proof of having the best graphics programmers? The main reason it's become the default for most programmers is the fact it was forced on you in windows.

Besides there's probably more people using opengles now than there are DX. If you think about it.

 

[Rangers]

This could turn into another 'deal with it' PR blunder of he's not careful.

And how is citing directx proof of having the best graphics programmers? The main reason it's become the default for most programmers is the fact it was forced on you in windows.

Besides there's probably more people using opengles now than there are DX. If you think about it.

Yeah, he should have just said "our hardware engineers kicked ass with both our console efforts to date". Cause they definitely did (speaking technically, not reliability wise before somebody brings up RROD). This would have been more to the point.

I think he was just sort of dumbing it down for a mass audience.

Definitely dont get the faux uproar though. I mean my goodness, is he supposed to bow down to competing products? How ludicrous. And he always goes out of his way to praise the PS4 as well, yet it's still not enough for these people.

Other forums I've seen dont seem to mind so I'll just chalk it up to GAF being GAF.

Be interesting if his words prove out.

The main reason it's become the default for most programmers is the fact it was forced on you in windows.

It's also a good product, which made opengl redundant. Just ask Carmack.

 

[-tkf-]

It's also a good product, which made opengl redundant. Just ask Carmack.

It became a good product thanks to John Carmack, just ask John Carmack.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Yeah, he should have just said "our hardware engineers kicked ass with both our console efforts to date". Cause they definitely did (speaking technically, not reliability wise before somebody brings up RROD). This would have been more to the point.

I think he was just sort of dumbing it down for a mass audience.

Definitely dont get the faux uproar though. I mean my goodness, is he supposed to bow down to competing products? How ludicrous. And he always goes out of his way to praise the PS4 as well, yet it's still not enough for these people.

Other forums I've seen dont seem to mind so I'll just chalk it up to GAF being GAF.

Be interesting if his words prove out.

It's also a good product, which made opengl redundant. Just ask Carmack.

Is still be careful if I was him. This is how the other self assisted blunders started, uproar on GAF that spread to other forums, then to press, and then the main stream press. It's followed the same route every time. With the optional twitter massacre thrown in.

I'm not saying DX isn't a good product now. It is. But only because MS practically forced people into using it, so the vast majority of development went into it leaving OpenGL lagging behind. But the mobile space has taken on OpenGL so we'll see how that turns out. That's a lot more competition than MS have ever faced before.

 

[BRiT]

Microsoft didn't force DirectX onto programmers. The graphic vendors had every chance to provide their own implimentation of OpenGL ICD but they failed in one way or another. The likely fault started with the most popular vendor 3dfx only providing a mini-gl driver. The other fault is the OpenGL Steering Committee taking years to get the next version out there and released. Sure it didn't help OpenGL that Microsoft was promoting their own API, but its not proper to put the blame entirely on Microsoft.

 

[Rangers]

Is still be careful if I was him. This is how the other self assisted blunders started, uproar on GAF that spread to other forums, then to press, and then the main stream press. It's followed the same route every time. With the optional twitter massacre thrown in.

I'm not saying DX isn't a good product now. It is. But only because MS practically forced people into using it, so the vast majority of development went into it leaving OpenGL lagging behind. But the mobile space has taken on OpenGL so we'll see how that turns out. That's a lot more competition than MS have ever faced before.

MS just did the same thing every company does. Same reason I'm tied into a gmail account to use an Android phone, have to sign up for Google+ that I dont want to use Youtube, iTunes to use Apple products, etc.

Penello will probably be banned on GAF, if history is any indication. If I was him I'd leave now rather than become their circus attraction of fanboy bait.

Also:

I wonder if Penello and Nelson know something from third parties.

 

[tuna]

Tywing Lannister: "If you have to say you are the true king you are not the true king."

 

[Shifty Geezer]

MS just did the same thing every company does. Same reason I'm tied into a gmail account to use an Android phone.

You don't need a GMail account to use an Android phone or tablet. You need one to access content on Google's store, but not to use the device. Just as you don't need an Xbox Live/Messenger/Skype account to use Windows. You also don't need to use Google's or MS's development environments for their respective platforms; there are third party tools to choose from. You just select the best fit from the options available. DX inclusion in Windows means little because you could distribute OGL with your game. Ergo the reasons DX overtook OGL are numerous and tied to functionality, dev tools, marketing, yada yada. Certainly DX wasn't forced on anyone.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Tywing Lannister: "If you have to say you are the true king you are not the true king."

Amazing insight from a fictional character. Does anyone seriously doubt that Microsoft has some of the best/smartest programmers in the world on their staff? I don't understand what is so offensive, or inaccurate, that this has dragged on over the last couple of pages.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Amazing insight from a fictional character. Does anyone seriously doubt that Microsoft has some of the best/smartest programmers in the world on their staff?

More than that, what constitutes the 'best'? Top 5%? That'll be thousands of programmers around the world. Lots of companies have some of the best.smartest programmers in the world! And having the best can also mean little if they are lead by numpties, no matter who employs them. Plenty of awesome engineers go to management with smart ideas only to be shot down by idiot managers who don't know squat.

 

[Scott_Arm]

More than that, what constitutes the 'best'? Top 5%? That'll be thousands of programmers around the world. Lots of companies have some of the best.smartest programmers in the world! And having the best can also mean little if they are lead by numpties, no matter who employs them. Plenty of awesome engineers go to management with smart ideas only to be shot down by idiot managers who don't know squat.

Most companies that are big market players in a particular field will say they have some of the best/brightest/smartest people, and even though there is no way to determine if it's true with some kind of metric or measurement, it has truth to it. When you're at the top of an industry you can compete for the best talent. You're going to get some of it. It tends to spread out for a variety of reasons. How someone sitting at home can take offense to that statement, when they have no vested interest, is beyond me. I imagine Microsoft's competitors would even say it was true.

 

[dumbo11]

Amazing insight from a fictional character. Does anyone seriously doubt that Microsoft has some of the best/smartest programmers in the world on their staff? I don't understand what is so offensive, or inaccurate, that this has dragged on over the last couple of pages.

During the height of the space race in the 1960s, legend has it, NASA scientists realized that pens could not function in space. They needed to figure out another way for the astronauts to write things down. So they spent years and millions of taxpayer dollars to develop a pen that could put ink to paper without gravity. But their crafty Soviet counterparts, so the story goes, simply handed their cosmonauts pencils.

The XB1 is, undoubtedly, a technical and engineering marvel. Approaching GDDR5 performance with cheaper DDR3, with voice recognition/state of the art skeletal analysis etc. It's amazing.

The PS4 appears to be a standard AMD APU in a pretty case with a bunch of GPU RAM and a few compute tweaks.

The question isn't whether the engineers were smart, but whether they were asked to build a 'space pen'. (the actual space pen story is, sadly, untrue).