News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[orangpelupa]

If it have a game that people really want to play, people will buy it as an early adopter.

for me myself, i have been burned by becoming an early adopter.
Kinect. Happy for a few months and bored by so little games it have. The only launch games thats not boring are Kinect Sports :/

 

[warb]

So it's really like a no-brainer and PS4 is the better choice after hearing all of nothing from MS so far? Seems reasonable (it doesn't seem reasonable).

Games or services unique to either system might come into the picture for some. As well as cost.

 

[Bagel seed]

We may need to break out the xrays to figure out the true specs of the Infinity. I'm afraid it's going to be a looong 5-6 months wait. Until then, even after the 21st there will be non stop speculation imo.

 

[MrFox]

If they have any spec that's better than what we got from vgleaks, they'll sure tell us and make it a big deal on the 21st. From then on, any omission will be expected to be this:
- 8GB DDR3 68GB/s
- 32MB ESRAM 102GB/s
- 12 CU 800Mhz 1.2TFlops
- 8 Jaguar cores 1.6GHz
- Kickass audio processor
- kinect 2 with wider FoV, better resolution
- Standard HDD
- 6x bluray
- 3GB reserved for OS

But none of that tells us how much the ESRAM helps with real games, or what visual difference we can expect from 12CU versus 18CU. That's going to require a good post-mortem of AAA third party games later into the generation. My guess remains that most gamers won't really care, unless there's a serious bottleneck somewhere that shows up in real games comparisons.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

the Xbox 3 hasn't even been shown let alone mass produced. Even If the VG leaks were up to date there's nothing in their articles that condemn or can predict future changes, or release dates.

 

[Bagel seed]

The event is going to be an hour long at 10am PST and broadcast on Spike TV. This thing is going to be a jam packed entertainment fest with a celeb appearance or two. It's a partnership event between Spike and MS with none other than Doritos Pope Keighley as the host. It being on Spike probably means a certain level of production needs to be met like with the VGA's. We're definitely not going to have a Cerny-esque monologue from their tech lead about the system architecture. It's going to be limited to subjective words and phrases like 'powerful', 'advanced' and 'cutting edge'. If a GHZ or MHZ figure of any kind is actually mentioned I'd be very surprised.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It was not my goal to antagonize anyone. I was simply saying we have no hard facts and If that gets me banned so be it! And I agree with your statement that we need to see what the xbox has to offer. Which was exactly my point.

Just a word of advice, not just for you but other new members and even some old members.

If you are a fan of Xbox then stick in PS4 instead of Xbox before you post and read it back to yourself. If you like Playstation, stick in Xbox instead of Playstation before you post and read it back to yourself.

And read your own post and imagine if someone you didn't like was saying it to you.

If any of that makes you annoyed/angry/upset/whatever, perhaps don't post what you were about to post.

People are on here to have civil discussions, not get into fights or wars or whatever.

Regards,
SB

 

[ultragpu]

It was not my goal to antagonize anyone. I was simply saying we have no hard facts and If that gets me banned so be it! And I agree with your statement that we need to see what the xbox has to offer. Which was exactly my point.

In a more constructive discussion about technology and speculation, applying some logic would be considered helpful and meaningful. If you talk semantics like the way you do, we might as well go back to the pipe dreams of dual APUs, 3tf monsters, pretty much as far as your wildest imagination goes.
I understand you are holding onto blind faith here as some other do too but if you just sit down take a step back and put things (leaks from DF, Edge, VGLeaks) altogether you'll see a clearer outcome already. Understand the logic behind TDP, chip design and testing phases, also cost, you would probably find why people aren't suggesting a much more powerful Durango spec. Unless of course MS pull a historical dishonest conspiracy oh all publishers and developers, I'd imagine that would hurt their reputation and credibility to an extent. But I think you are definitely mistaken logic to fanboyism here.

 

[the ugly cat]

Guys I just ran into this at eurogamer

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-radeon-hd-7790-review

If Microsoft use this for the next Xbox and I mean exactly the same in terms of specs then the difference in PS4 and this in GPU terms is very small in my opinion but I could be wrong. The rumoured GPU is even less powerful as the specs vgleaks show because of the lower clock speed. My question is how do you guys think the games will run with the move engines and display planes all working together? I still think there will be some impressive looking games. What do you guys think?

 

[ultragpu]

A 7850 is consistently 15fps faster than a 7790 in Crysis 3 High setting 1080p from the video in the same link, and PS4's gpu is still faster than a 7850. Also this shows the difference is not small by any means.

 

[Betanumerical]

the Xbox 3 hasn't even been shown let alone mass produced. Even If the VG leaks were up to date there's nothing in their articles that condemn or can predict future changes, or release dates.

From everything I've read APU's take a lot of time to develop and test you cannot really adapt to much change quickly (as in a redesign of the entire thing over night), the best you could probably do is swap out for parts that have the same footprint, heat and power requirements but even that might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[(((interference)))]

A 7850 is consistently 15fps faster than a 7790 in Crysis 3 High setting 1080p from the video in the same link, and PS4's gpu is still faster than a 7850. Also this shows the difference is not small by any means.

Around 30% faster, which is about what you'd expect the real world performance gap between PS4 and Durango to be (or say, the same FPS at 30% higher res on PS4, or 30% more expensive shaders/effects etc)

Not a huge difference but still significant (>10%) wheras this gen there weren't any significant differences between the two machines.

From speaking with Richard he certainly expects the PS4 to be more powerful and for it to show in Face Offs, but that's not saying your average gamer will notice or care.

 

[GrimThorne]

Wow, you take internet too seriously

Anyways, I think some of the expectation for 720 make no sense. Some people are dreaming of 5 tera flops Geforce titian priced at 999$ can do 4.5TF.

I am more interested about Microsoft vision rather than specs. As I do not think specs will matter too much. Kinect2 and Windows 8, things like these can bring the consumers :|

I'm not one of these dreamers, I fall somewhere in the middle. I obviously reject the most ridiculous claims, and require just a little more clarity on the more accepted leaks. But even to me it still looks like something is up, something unknown. And it isn't just Greenberg that's been dropping these "you will be surprised" tweets. What really feeding this is Microsoft relentless insistence upon absolute secrecy from everyone.

I recently watched Mark Rein at a GameHorizon Roundtable being shadowed by a Microsoft rep during a recent conference. Rein clearly wanted to talk hardware but he couldn't, he stopped himself from making even the tiniest hint or reference. I don't know if the host of the conference was slightly frustrated with that, because he then suddenly and uncharacteristically directed his question to the MS rep who was sitting way in back of the room. lol. He could only respond by saying he couldn't say anything until the 21st.

MS is taking extra care to keep a secret that was supposedly outed months ago. Yet they've taken no steps to get any Durango specs removed. They haven't even made a request as they did with sites over the Yukon Roadmap. This isn't me saying that the leaked specs aren't real, this is me saying that we may not have full picture yet.

 

[Gubbi]

Around 30% faster, which is about what you'd expect the real world performance gap between PS4 and Durango to be (or say, the same FPS at 30% higher res on PS4, or 30% more expensive shaders/effects etc)

Not a huge difference but still significant (>10%) wheras this gen there weren't any significant differences between the two machines.

30% is what many cross platform PS3 games lag their 360 counterparts; Slightly lower res (10-15%) and slightly lower framerate (another 10-15%). Then you have the quarter res buffers for alpha blended assets (smoke and particles) that are ubiquitous on PS3.

While Durango has fewer shader resources and fewer ROPs, memory indirection is a lot cheaper on Durango than Orbis as long as you hit the ESRAM. I expect advances in rendering techniques to take advantage of this.

Cheers

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

From everything I've read APU's take a lot of time to develop and test you cannot really adapt to much change quickly (as in a redesign of the entire thing over night), the best you could probably do is swap out for parts that have the same footprint, heat and power requirements but even that might be a bit of a stretch.

I'm thinking it may be a battle between upping the clock speeds of the GPU/CPU. but it actually depends on the dimensions of the encasing both companies use. in reality, specs merely depend on the size of the surroundings. It'd be a lot better if console manufacturers looked to more efficient methods of cooling.

 

[Cjail]

@ultragpu & (((interference)))

If I am not mistaken MS have modified the GPU so they might have improved performance...though Sony did the same for the PS4 GPU so the gap between the two could still be the same.

 

[Betanumerical]

@ultragpu & (((interference)))

If I am not mistaken MS have modified the GPU so they might have improved performance...though Sony did the same for the PS4 GPU so the gap between the two could still be the same.

I haven't seen a sane rumour that suggests this, could you please provide a link (unless by modifications you mean the eSRAM which we all know about)

 

[Grall]

This isn't me saying that the leaked specs aren't real, this is me saying that we may not have full picture yet.

This is me saying that MS' behavior looks, sounds and smells like Nintendo behavior, IE, when you don't have anything to really brag about about a certain aspect of your product, you keep quiet instead. Nintendo talks up their tablet, social aspects, new nintendo online stuff, marketplace and so on. They STFU about the fact their console has a CPU from the late 1990s.

MS will talk up kinect and related stuff (voice tracking, facial recognition, whatever), undoubtedly xbox live improvements (whatever they may be), marketplace, things of that sort. If they aren't aiming to beat sony on raw hardware specs they're not going to talk much, if at all, about them, other than at a basic level, such as so-and-so many CPU cores and thiiiis much RAM, things of that sort. Big numbers look impressive, but if your numbers are smaller than the other guy's, why draw attention to the fact?

I don't think it's very likely there will be any sudden surprises on the 21st in the numbers department. As already mentioned, ASICs of this magnitude take a LONG time to develop, and games also take a long time to develop. MS pretty much literally cannot have kept things secret all this while or else they'd shoot themselves and all of their games developers in the foot. It just isn't realistic, and certainly not practical.

...Yeah, it COULD happen, almost anything could happen according to theories of quantum mechanics. Just really unlikely, though. No credible rumors or leaks have given indications that durango will differ substantially from what we have seen suggested so far, and a number of credible rumors/leaks have said that durango WON'T differ substantially from what we have seen suggested so far.

I'm sure durango will be great, consoles aren't all about big numbers. If nothing else, nintendo has proven that often enough over the years.

 

[PalmiNio]

There is just one thing that does not make sense to me:

- Paul Thurrot states that the price of Durango will be 499 USD

8GB DDR3 / 12 CU+8C Core APU seems very cheap to produce for the price of 499 USD, seems high.

499 USD is the pricetag expected for PS4 and that comes with a higher price BOM based on better APU and GDDR5.


So how can the Durango be priced at 499 USD with that low specs? Sure it will have Kinects tuff but that cannot be so expensive.

I thought that Microsoft would go lower specs to be able to undercut PS4 in price, which worked great for them with the 360.

 

[arijoytunir]

There is just one thing that does not make sense to me:

- Paul Thurrot states that the price of Durango will be 499 USD

8GB DDR3 / 12 CU+8C Core APU seems very cheap to produce for the price of 499 USD, seems high.

499 USD is the pricetag expected for PS4 and that comes with a higher price BOM based on better APU and GDDR5.


So how can the Durango be priced at 499 USD with that low specs? Sure it will have Kinects tuff but that cannot be so expensive.

I thought that Microsoft would go lower specs to be able to undercut PS4 in price, which worked great for them with the 360.

may be they are trying for more profit like iphones ! iphone on contract - $199 and off contract $700-800 !